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  1. #21
    Senior Member steveaki13's Avatar
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    Tier A: Lewis Hamilton, Fernando Alonso, Sebastian Vettel
    Tier B: Daniel Ricciardo, Valterri Bottas, Kimi Raikkonen,
    Tier C: Nico Rosberg, Jenson Button, Nico Hulkenberg, Felipe Massa
    Tier D: Romain Grosjean, Max Verstappen, Carlos Sainz, Dani Kyvat, Sergio Perez, Felipe Nasr
    Tier E: Pastor Maldonado, Will Stevens, Marcus Ericcson,
    Tier F: Roberto Merhi,


    Tier ZZB: Yuji Ide
    I still exist and still find the forum occasionally. Busy busy

  2. #22
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    I´m not from Germany but, as absurd it can look, I tink that Sebastian Vettel belongs to tier A.

  3. #23
    Senior Member kfzmeister's Avatar
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    I'm originally from Germany and spend enough time on German F1 forums. I can tell you that just about the same mix of F1 fans exists there, meaning that there are those that think Vettel is one of the greatest and those that are still not convinced that he is on the same level as perhaps current drivers HAM or ALO.

    Btw, Austrian H. Marko recently was quoted as saying that Ricciardo is on the same level as VET.
    Form is Temporary, Class is Permanent

  4. #24
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    I think even viewing it as subjective it's much harder than some people make it. There are certain drivers who only gel with certain car types, some drivers that seem to be able to drive them all well, some more consistent, etc. Due to that comparing them to other drivers on that team doesn't always work, and with the car in the equation there is often bias (intentional or not) favoring one of the drivers.

    Given cars equally competitive yet suited to each driver, I think there are a number of drivers that can give us quite a show and could fight hard for the WDC, including (not in any order):

    Fernando
    Jenson
    Kimi
    Lewis
    Sebastian V.

    Possibly a few others. As for Ricciardo, Bottas, Hulk, and the other "up and coming" drivers, I think it takes more time to see where they stand after more seasons and possible car changes.

  5. Likes: Mia 01 (26th April 2015)
  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by pino View Post
    Grosjean and Hulk, ahead of Bottas and Massa ?
    My bad, Bottas should be in #B, Massa not so much.

  7. Likes: truefan72 (5th May 2015)
  8. #26
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    My driver standings..

    Tier 1- For me #1 has to be Alonso, simply the most complete driver and with Hamilton (probably quicker but not as complete overall) just behind him.

    Tier 2- Ricciardo- possible tier 1 but needs another impressive season or two to prove it, Vettel, Raikkonen. Bottas, and possibly Hulkenberg (Just needs the right car?)

    Tier 3- Rosberg, Button, Grosjean, Massa

    Tier 4- Perez , Nasr, Verstappen, Sainz, Kyvat, (With the latter 3 or 4 drivers in this tier showing impressive early promise, possible tier 2/3 potential?)

    Tier 5- Maldonado - fast but too hot headed/dangerous to be in F1 imo, Stevens, Ericcson, Merhi
    Last edited by Zico; 3rd May 2015 at 00:23.
    The emergence of the new 'Rainmaster' - Mad Max at Interlagos 2016!

  9. Likes: truefan72 (5th May 2015)
  10. #27
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    Aw ok I'll bite...!

    I did something like this at the end of 2012, ranked all current and some recent drivers at the time, and feel I did fairly well. I have much less clear an idea now...


    After jotting some notes, I am finding the top 12 in particular after the first few drivers are staggeringly close, almost impossible to separate. I am going to try. I will also value all round experience and stuff to try to make separations but it's very subjective...



    Bear in mind this is just my honest opinion and I've never claimed to measure each driver's ability to 0.001sec, and that's it, set in stone forever; but I am going to have a go doing this without tiers - wish me well.


    This is also where I think everyone's form is at right now, not where they will be in future. So obviously Verstappen and Sainz will suffer as they are so new.


    1.Hamilton - sorry everyone, no agenda here. My desire to (somehow) know the truth of how everyone stands is greater than my like or dislike of any driver, but at the mo a good car is allowing Hamilton to shine. I think he's actually becoming pretty 'complete' these days.

    2.Alonso - Still super duper, though I suspect he's peaked but will still be strong for some years.

    3.Vettel - maybe? Last year wasn't good enough, and the 2 above never had seasons like that. Hamilton v Button in 2011 isn't the same as Hamilton still had Jenson on performance (13-6 in quali for example) but Lewis threw tons of pts away by his own doing. He should have been 2nd in WDC. The difference between Ham and Vet is Hamilton didn't lack the performance. No hate here, just what I think till I know better. My rating of Seb is also based on his earlier career where he really impressed me.

    4.Ricciardo - Maybe should be ahead of Vettel but let's see how he gets on a bit more. Hard to tell.

    5.Rosberg - Hugely solid and fast, but it's always been felt he has never 'transcended' a car, though can still be devastatingly effective.

    6.Raikkonen (post rally comeback) - I always felt, based on early careers, that Kimi's ultimate ability was better than Button's, and he would be higher on this list. Even in 2009 he could conjure up some magic in Spa, but post comeback I'm not he sure if he, like Rosberg, has managed to 'transcend' his car, though has put in some great tyre preservation drives (Australia 2013). Depending on form can also be much lower ranked too...

    7.Button - Maybe I'm rating him a bit low as he seems pretty well matched with Alonso. I think in equal cars with Rosberg, Nico would beat him in quali over a season. Jenson does seem to be one who can put in special drives sometimes though.



    Other Drivers
    Now it gets tricky, so on second thought I don't think I will actually rank this bunch... I feel Hulkenberg, Perez and Grosjean in particular are looking masked by their cars. Put any of them in a top team and suddenly they'd make waves. Perception is such a strange thing.

    I'm guessing that Hulkenberg must still be at least equal with Bottas since he has a full 2 years more experience. I'm not sure he can be bad enough to actually be behind Valtteri right now (but soon may well be as the Finn climbs his steeper learning curve).

    I suspect that in his 5th year, Perez is now every bit the equal of Massa. So maybe the line-ups of Williams and Force India could at this current moment be as near to exactly equal as you can get?

    Romain Grosjean While Maldonado remains rubbish at racecraft, his actual speed seems underrated. Yet Grosjean has outqualified him 100% this season. I am not impressed too much by the Lotus chassis, considering it's engine. I am guessing that Grosjean is able to have just a little more searing speed than Hulkenberg, who I feel is too conservative, though I rate Hulk as more solid and consistent still. Grosjean still has more experience than Bottas, and I am thinking he too is maybe equal to Bottas right now.

    Bottas has the highest learning curve however, so ample scope to move clearly ahead, and very soon.


    So in summary: Grosjean, Hulkenberg, Bottas separated by nothing, with Perez and Massa (who's on great form right now) just a little behind.

    Immediately behind this I put Kvyat, in 13th! Car problems make it unclear right now but he's maybe looking shaky. Mind you, so did Vettel early 2008 so let's see. I am convinced he will pull through no problem.

    14th is Maldonado, very much on pace, not giving that much weight to poor racecraft etc.



    The Others
    15.Max Verstappen: It may be a surprise, but remember his inexperience. How can he be right in the mix of Bottas etc when they have so much experience on him. No doubt at all Max will climb the rankings soon.

    16.Same for Carlos Sainz, who as a guess, is similar to Perez...?

    17.Felipe Nasr next, pretty close to Sainz.

    18.Marcus Ericsson - Not bad, nothing else to say.

    19.Roberto Merhi - Feel he's better than Stevens, but must be suffering with less experience and probably worse parts etc.

    20.Will Stevens - The new Max Chilton. He's ok.



    There I tried. I also wanted to say. Some drivers from the Bottas group could possibly be ahead of some drivers ahead of them now but I'm not sure yet.
    Last edited by rjbetty; 4th May 2015 at 13:33.
    SPAM - Going off topic to give you the deals you don't want.

  11. #28
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    I don't know why Vettel should be ranked below say Hamilton. Both Hamilton and Vettel had phenomenally good first full-time seasons in F1. Hamilton nearly won the WDC driving for a top team in 2007, but Vettel won a GP while driving Red Bull's "B" team car in 2008, and has beaten the mother-ship team itself. In his second F1 season in 2008, Hamilton became the champion, but in his second F1 season Vettel in 2009 gave Red Bull the first win ever in the history of that team, and he took the championship fight all the way to one of the last races of the season. Subsequently, both of them met some blues. Hamilton shockingly was beaten by his teammate in 2011, and Vettel was humiliated by his teammate in 2014. These guys are very much on the same level IMHO. Time will tell who is the best.
    Last edited by zako85; 4th May 2015 at 14:55.

  12. Likes: Mia 01 (5th May 2015)
  13. #29
    Senior Member truefan72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zico View Post
    My driver standings..

    Tier 1- For me #1 has to be Alonso, simply the most complete driver and with Hamilton (probably quicker but not as complete overall) just behind him.

    Tier 2- Ricciardo- possible tier 1 but needs another impressive season or two to prove it, Vettel, Raikkonen. Bottas, and possibly Hulkenberg (Just needs the right car?)

    Tier 3- Rosberg, Button, Grosjean, Massa

    Tier 4- Perez , Nasr, Verstappen, Sainz, Kyvat, (With the latter 3 or 4 drivers in this tier showing impressive early promise, possible tier 2/3 potential?)

    Tier 5- Maldonado - fast but too hot headed/dangerous to be in F1 imo, Stevens, Ericcson, Merhi
    I think I agree 90% with this list. and the only change would be that Hamilton is just about equal to alonso. both have shown to be equally adept in outperforming their cars

    Also maldonado, is clearly a tier 3 driver, whether one likes him personally or not. the guy is talented behind the wheel and on a good day could be a race winner
    for example, for all his incidents, they probably have been less than what grosjean did in his career which got him a 1 race suspension, and IMO he is a superior driver to massa, who honestly belongs in tier 4, if for no other reason than his complete inability to drive in inclement conditions and was pretty much coached around every corner during races.

    I also think that perez is a solid tier 3 driver to me.
    you can't argue with results.

  14. Likes: Zico (6th May 2015)
  15. #30
    Senior Member truefan72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zako85 View Post
    I don't know why Vettel should be ranked below say Hamilton. Both Hamilton and Vettel had phenomenally good first full-time seasons in F1. Hamilton nearly won the WDC driving for a top team in 2007, but Vettel won a GP while driving Red Bull's "B" team car in 2008, and has beaten the mother-ship team itself. In his second F1 season in 2008, Hamilton became the champion, but in his second F1 season Vettel in 2009 gave Red Bull the first win ever in the history of that team, and he took the championship fight all the way to one of the last races of the season. Subsequently, both of them met some blues. Hamilton shockingly was beaten by his teammate in 2011, and Vettel was humiliated by his teammate in 2014. These guys are very much on the same level IMHO. Time will tell who is the best.
    Vettel ranks below Hamilton and alonso, because he simply is not a better driver than them. He was a perfect product of a talented driver and a beyond dominant machinery. And yes some might say he outclassed Webber, but i honestly feel that webber's cars was more often than not an afterthought to RBR. When Webber did his thing he was just as quick as Vettel and in quite a few case outshone him when they both where in the zone. Multi 21 tells you everything you need to know, If webber rightfully won that race, the entire season might have taken a different trajectory, and lets also remember that Webber chucked away his WDC championship in 2010 when he crashed out in Korea. In 2014 Vettel was completely embarrassed by Riciardo, the likes we have never seen before.

    Hamilton got the measure of Alonso hie rookie year and even then Alonso was not embarrassed the way Vettel was. I rank vettel below those 2 and on the strength of his results gets him above kimi and Hulkenberg and Ricciardo, even thought he argument can be made that as of right now Riciardo is probably better than Vettel.
    you can't argue with results.

  16. Likes: kfzmeister (6th May 2015),rjbetty (7th June 2015),Zico (6th May 2015)

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