WRC Engines

**Muchonen** · 10th March 2015, 14:39

Originally Posted by LouKayne

I just hate seeing people being naysayers on forums but sorry about coming off confrontational and yes, vague because I wanted to make it a general forum for anyone with any information to share if they would like.

But to be honest FIA regulations is the point where u have to start if u want to make such a tread. Cause I can tell u that engine has to be 1.6 with turbo. Sure that is some information but I doubt if u wanted that kind of stuff. Make a solid base on which we can discuss and add some things we know. And being polite may be helpful otherwise u will became next N.O.T...

**Mirek** · 10th March 2015, 14:40

Originally Posted by LouKayne

I just hate seeing people being naysayers on forums but sorry about coming off confrontational and yes, vague because I wanted to make it a general forum for anyone with any information to share if they would like.

A lot of people here on the forum actually are real drivers, co-drivers, mechanics, engineers from teams, rally organizers etc. but while many have access to the information they usually can't share it public for obvious reasons.

**janvanvurpa** · 10th March 2015, 19:17

Originally Posted by LouKayne

Are you and engine mechanic that owns or works on a old world rally car?

No he's an angry Greek guy living in England who works as a lab assistant probably in some dank basement..
He thinks he is a Greek god.
The truth is he is NOThing, never done anything but University and typing..and insulting every single person in the world constantly except Loeb.

Who are you, got a real name..?

Did you ever hear of Homologation and Homologation papers? EVERYTHING they use must be in the Homologation papers..

EVERYTHING has dimensions, lengths sizes, tooth counts in the gearbox.
All in the forms.

I'm going to guess you didn't look...
You ought to..
Safe to say that every detail that has a limit is on the limit.

Only thing not is the engine mapping in the ECU...

**janvanvurpa** · 10th March 2015, 19:31

Originally Posted by LouKayne

So your trying to tell me every WRC engine is singly describe by one set of rule (i.e. Limitations). Every manufacture has their own take on the engine regulations that why you see VW dominating because their engine is much strong than the rest. The formula one has limitations like the WRC and I don't see Renault and Mercedes with the same engines, likewise with Citroen, M-Sport, VW, Etc. The 2007 Subaru WRC 2.0L boxer looks, sounds and performs just like the Citroen C4 WRC 2.0L I4...... I don't think so.

So much wrong....You evidently are new to this sport and obviously don't understand what different things inside the engines mean in practice...
The 07 Subaru does not sound and perform just like all the other engines..
The bore on that was 92mm, virtually all the others were 84 or 85mm or max (Evo 10) 86mm..
This make a difference in the max possible dynamic compression ratio and max boost for a given fuel..
So limiting is this bore size thing that the Duratec Fords in the Fock-us which stock was 87.5mm was reduced down to 85mm..and stroke changed to 89 to compensate..
Has to do with flame front propagation and distance to complete a burn..
It is one reason why Subies began to be less effective...and the proof of the pudding is the new Subie/Toyota BRZ thing they changed bore down to 86mm and stroke 86mm..
They wouldn't have changed it just because they were bored, they changed it because fuel only burns so fast and they wanted more complete combustion..

So not to be too mean, often it doesn't matter what we "think" if the reality of what 'is" is different..

The VW engine is not "much stronger" if you do the math and see the difference expressed in %..

The differences in SS times to other works cars is oten less than 0,15%...That cannot seriously be considered "much stronger" or faster...

Hard to discuss using only opinions and not measuring anything or comparing dimensions, and numbers...

**janvanvurpa** · 10th March 2015, 19:35

Originally Posted by LouKayne

I just hate seeing people being naysayers on forums but sorry about coming off confrontational and yes, vague because I wanted to make it a general forum for anyone with any information to share if they would like.

Nobody so far, aside from the perma-Troll who is NOT important, has said anything negative..
I suggested you copy and paste the engine rules set so that reference could be made to those rules and not just throwing around gut feelings from watching You-tube..

What did you say your name was? You rally up there? What car and class? I have a lot of friends and customers using my stuff up in Canada.

**stefanvv** · 10th March 2015, 19:55

there is some good info about the engines in "Rally cars tech stuff" or something like that thread

**rayh_mx** · 11th March 2015, 19:37

http://www.motorsportforums.com/show...ars-tech-stuff

**LouKayne** · 14th March 2015, 02:53

Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

So much wrong....You evidently are new to this sport and obviously don't understand what different things inside the engines mean in practice...
The 07 Subaru does not sound and perform just like all the other engines..
The bore on that was 92mm, virtually all the others were 84 or 85mm or max (Evo 10) 86mm..
This make a difference in the max possible dynamic compression ratio and max boost for a given fuel..
So limiting is this bore size thing that the Duratec Fords in the Fock-us which stock was 87.5mm was reduced down to 85mm..and stroke changed to 89 to compensate..
Has to do with flame front propagation and distance to complete a burn..
It is one reason why Subies began to be less effective...and the proof of the pudding is the new Subie/Toyota BRZ thing they changed bore down to 86mm and stroke 86mm..
They wouldn't have changed it just because they were bored, they changed it because fuel only burns so fast and they wanted more complete combustion..

So not to be too mean, often it doesn't matter what we "think" if the reality of what 'is" is different..

The VW engine is not "much stronger" if you do the math and see the difference expressed in %..

The differences in SS times to other works cars is oten less than 0,15%...That cannot seriously be considered "much stronger" or faster...

Hard to discuss using only opinions and not measuring anything or comparing dimensions, and numbers...

If you actually re read what I wrote I didn't say they were they same. I said I don't think so. The person I was responding to was saying that every WRC engine is the exact same and I was saying the contrary.

**janvanvurpa** · 14th March 2015, 03:48

Originally Posted by LouKayne

If you actually re read what I wrote I didn't say they were they same. I said I don't think so. The person I was responding to was saying that every WRC engine is the exact same and I was saying the contrary.

Well Post no3 is you responding to me where you say

So your trying to tell me every WRC engine is singly describe by one set of rule (i.e. Limitations). Every manufacture has their own take on the engine regulations that why you see VW dominating because their engine is much strong than the rest. The formula one has limitations like the WRC and I don't see Renault and Mercedes with the same engines, likewise with Citroen, M-Sport, VW, Etc. The 2007 Subaru WRC 2.0L boxer looks, sounds and performs just like the Citroen C4 WRC 2.0L I4...... I don't think so

Helps when you click "quote" when replying..

And nobody here "was saying every WRC engine is the same" but if they were so crazy "saying the contrary' without numbers, dimensions, sizes etc is just as pointless.

And maybe I mis-read what you're lat line said--or implied

So your trying to tell me every WRC engine is singly describe by one set of rule (i.e. Limitations).

Not at all.. It seems you are not really interested in any of the details like bore, stroke rod length valve sizes cam timing and duration--which only tells half the story or the turbo turbine wheel and compressor wheel dimensions, the pressure ratios in the turbos.....

Or is it that you want others to supply all that data??

And for some reason you still haven't said what your name is and what class you do up in Canada...
Is there some reason for that? The refusal is kind of like turning your back on somebody that you began a discussion with... it's mildly put---odd.

**LouKayne** · 14th March 2015, 04:30

Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

Well Post no3 is you responding to me where you say

Helps when you click "quote" when replying..

And nobody here "was saying every WRC engine is the same" but if they were so crazy "saying the contrary' without numbers, dimensions, sizes etc is just as pointless.

And maybe I mis-read what you're lat line said--or implied

Not at all.. It seems you are not really interested in any of the details like bore, stroke rod length valve sizes cam timing and duration--which only tells half the story or the turbo turbine wheel and compressor wheel dimensions, the pressure ratios in the turbos.....

Or is it that you want others to supply all that data??

And for some reason you still haven't said what your name is and what class you do up in Canada...
Is there some reason for that? The refusal is kind of like turning your back on somebody that you began a discussion with... it's mildly put---odd.

My name is Matt Carew and I do not race in Canada. I am a Mechanical Engineering student in my 4th year and the only rallying experience I have is using my brother-in-law's uncle's rally cars. I am a massive rally enthusiast and hope to start racing after I finish school and get some money.

I would like to compare all the spec/dimension of the engine and its components but I was having trouble finding the information so I thought their would be some experts on here or some people who could put me in the right direction.

I am merely trying to gain some knowledge on these specific engines to help with my thesis that I might write on a aspect of World Rally Cars.