R.I.P. Formula One (1950-2014)

[Malbec]

Still is redneck. But going through a purple patch of mainstream appeal, in it's history. There's a political factor to it's supposed popularity. This can be overturned.

Incorrect. NASCAR has widened its fanbase by reaching out to new demographics. If they have used political means to do so then so be it. Yet another way in which NASCAR has used a means F1 ignores.

Irrelevant.

Irrelevant only because you do not understand the point.

The US may be the world's largest economy but it is only one market. F1 has access to the entire world supposedly. Driver salaries are a decent indicator of the financial wellbeing of the sport as they are driven by sponsorship income. NASCAR from one country draws in comparable money to F1 which draws from the entire world. See the issue?

F1 was supposedly more popular when it he less races. You want more? It dilutes the value of races. Driver access is not important

Quit the strawman stuff. I have made no comment on the number of races.

Driver access is not important? Fan experience at races isn't important? OK, guess it doesn't matter if with sky high prices and poor value for fans if race attendances drop and circuits that aren't backed up by lavish government backing (ie the legacy tracks in Europe like Silverstone, Monza) can no longer afford to have races. We can have more races in dodgy dictatorships willing to pay hosting fees. What does that do to advance the sport?

It is not the fault of F1, that China and ME generally are not interested.

Nor has the sport tried much to engage the locals, ensuring that only those with subscriptions can watch the races on TV in China and in parts of the Middle East.

So what?

Without wishing to be rude if you don't understand the relevance of my comment perhaps you shouldn't discuss off-track stuff? You can't see the relevance that the F1 fanbase is not being replenished by new fans as other sports manage quite well and is therefore falling in size? Really? Has it not crossed your mind that the amount of money entering the sport is entirely based on the supposed returns the sponsors and state backers think they can get from the fans and therefore the size and affluence of the fanbase is crucial in the longterm?

This has nothing to do with F1, in the motor racing sense.

What a bizarre comment. The stewardship of F1 has nothing to do with F1 in the motorracing sense. It is all about the business aspect and about the longterm future of the sport, not about whether Alonso can beat Hamilton next year. That is the theme of this thread I hope you realise...

It has nothing to learn from Nascar. F1 is the designated leading motorsport competition in the world. Even if it's completely ****, it will still be popular and relevant

Then you know nothing about NASCAR and the way it has been marketed. Nor do you understand my points. How will F1 still be popular if it doesn't get new fans? Old fans tend to die you know, they need to be replaced.

[N. Jones]

With all of the crap that goes on during the off-season I am still excited for the upcoming season;.

[Tazio]

Not taking side here, but being an American I would just like to share some observations. I live on the west coast, an area much less conservative than the heartland and bible belt, although their is no lack of rednecks here. This is ony one market (albeit a large one), and as far as I can tell both NASCAR, and F1 are growing in popularity. I never paid much attention to NASCAR until JPM joined the series, and now that he's left I have lost most of my interest in it, basically because I don't care for oval track racing, or road racing in bulky (compared to open wheelers) cars, that is a personal preference. My best friend is very conservative, but also a rather enlightened redneck! He keeps himself abreast of all current events, and although I usually disagree with his political views, only recently has he started keeping tabs on F1. Our sports conversations used to revolve around other traditional US sports, with a huge emphasis on Baseball, as we played together and roomed on road trips. Now he is talking to me about guys like Jochen Rindt, JYS, and Ronnie Peterson, as well as "the shoe", and current events in F1. F1 is having a renaissance in the US. I even have a couple nephews, that have started following the series, but then again they come from a very affluent family which puts them in a very small minority in the US. I was going through some personal adds and noticed one by a woman in her late 40's that listed F1 as one of her interests. I decided to write her, and asked her who her fav pilot was. She admitted to me that she only knew of Lewis Hamilton, and wasn't really very interested in the sport. The idea of F1 is chic, and does appeal to the some fashionistas in this country, as superficial as their interest actually is.

There is one aspect of NASCAR that is a huge turn off to liberals, who generally have more disposable income then your redneck types, and it is why I can't really embrace the sport. That is that they prey before every race. Philosophically I cannot seriously embrace any sport that brings religion into the experience in any way, and I think a lot of other Americans on the left feel the exact same way as I do.
Just my two cents

[jens]

Interesting thoughts about F1, NASCAR and popularity in US.

I think it is entirely possible the state of F1 might be improving in some parts of the world (like the mentioned US), but the key question is, where are they heading on the whole.

I don't have in-depth information, but based on comments and also that F1 is increasingly hiding itself behind Pay TV-wall, the viewing figures are dropping and the future doesn't look all that bright. It is also reflected in sponsorship, as sponsor interest is directly linked to the amount of audience. And what we have seen - even a team like McLaren has struggled to attract a title sponsor in the last few years!

I don't know what exactly has NASCAR been doing in comparison, but if they have managed to at least maintain their viewing figures, they will have done a better job comparatively!

[Franky]

I doubt F1 will die. It only dies if there's no one to race. But I agree that selling licence to pay-TV with heavy profits has hurt the number of people the sport can possibly reach.

And regarding NASCAR, remembered this joke - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nTqnrU1m1Q

[GravettFan99]

@Franky not available in my country.

I actually think Malbec is right about F1 needing to take after NASCAR a bit. There were a lot of different winners, a very competitive field, a series very open to the "youngsters" (Bernie does not approve :P), the minnows of the field actually have a chance at the big-time (unlike Caterham & Marussia), they are more open to the fans, etc.

I have to admit, as for their points systems, NASCAR and F1 both screwed up with the way their finales were set up this year. (NASCAR - reset top 4 to a tie on points. F1 - double points)

In any case, though, F1 is on the backfoot and has some catching up to do. BTCC, NASCAR, DTM, all of the like... they're all getting better than F1. F1 needs to step up its game.

[Franky]

@Franky not available in my country.

Odd, it's uploaded by the CNNinternational, so thought it should be viewable everywhere. It's from Robin Williams: Weapons of Self Destruction standup. The Youtube bit has three short jokes, the main part is the following:

"I love the guys who say I watch NASCAR for the racing. Yeah, and I watch porn for the acting. You liar!
You watch NASCAR to see team Viagra to spin out in flames and the guy getting out with his ... on fire going "I'm okay!""

[journeyman racer]

Incorrect. NASCAR has widened its fanbase by reaching out to new demographics. If they have used political means to do so then so be it. Yet another way in which NASCAR has used a means F1 ignores.

You haven't the faintest idea why Nascar has had some mainstream popularity in recent times.

Irrelevant only because you do not understand the point.

The US may be the world's largest economy but it is only one market. F1 has access to the entire world supposedly. Driver salaries are a decent indicator of the financial wellbeing of the sport as they are driven by sponsorship income. NASCAR from one country draws in comparable money to F1 which draws from the entire world. See the issue?

Irrelevant because it's irrelevant. Comparing income streams for the drivers is beyond logic. Drivers get an excess of income, now matter what the economy is. I can't even think of an analogy to express such irrational reasoning. You've just found a reason to suit your prejudiced opinion.

Quit the strawman stuff. I have made no comment on the number of races.

It was me who mentioned "frequent races"?

Driver access is not important? Fan experience at races isn't important? OK, guess it doesn't matter if with sky high prices and poor value for fans if race attendances drop and circuits that aren't backed up by lavish government backing (ie the legacy tracks in Europe like Silverstone, Monza) can no longer afford to have races. We can have more races in dodgy dictatorships willing to pay hosting fees. What does that do to advance the sport?

Advance the sport? Where the **** do you think it's going? It's the world championship. That's it. It's reached it's zenith long ago. It can't go anywhere else. Those dodgy dictatorships are willing to pay those hosting fees because F1 is relevant. x amount of money is supposed to equal x amount of relevance. But this is not what's been happening for a couple of decades now. Nascar is ok, it has it's "strengths", but it is not relevant worldwide.

[journeyman racer]

Nor has the sport tried much to engage the locals, ensuring that only those with subscriptions can watch the races on TV in China and in parts of the Middle East.

This is a comment where you just are not "with it". You idea of what F1 should be doing, it's power, and it's place worldwide is delusional. You have no understanding why in the meantime, F1 are incompatible with those countries.

"I've got an idea! Why don't we send the most expensive competition on the planet. The competition that represents huge excess, and send it to poverty stricken China?" "With F1 also being hugely flaunting, why don't we also go to the socially rigid Middle East too? It's be a sure-fire winner!"

China and the Middle East are at least a number of decades away from being able to embrace F1, regardless of how much money is spent. These areas must develop a popular domestic motorsport culture first, where F1 then arrives with acceptance. These countries don't have a motorsport culture, so F1 will remain with minimal popularity. But you don't get that, don't you?

Without wishing to be rude if you don't understand the relevance of my comment perhaps you shouldn't discuss off-track stuff? You can't see the relevance that the F1 fanbase is not being replenished by new fans as other sports manage quite well and is therefore falling in size? Really? Has it not crossed your mind that the amount of money entering the sport is entirely based on the supposed returns the sponsors and state backers think they can get from the fans and therefore the size and affluence of the fanbase is crucial in the longterm?

You should not be discussing off-track stuff yourself. I'm not worried about F1's popularity. If it is going through a period of lower popularity, then it's just a trough. Unlike you, I don't have an expectation that it must consume the world.

What a bizarre comment. The stewardship of F1 has nothing to do with F1 in the motorracing sense. It is all about the business aspect and about the longterm future of the sport, not about whether Alonso can beat Hamilton next year. That is the theme of this thread I hope you realise...

You talk like F1 is a living organism and that it'll die. It won't. Its be around for decades, hundreds of years. As the designated no1 motorsport competition in the world, F1 is fluid. The only thing that does count, is if Alonso can beat Hamilton next year.

Then you know nothing about NASCAR and the way it has been marketed. Nor do you understand my points. How will F1 still be popular if it doesn't get new fans? Old fans tend to die you know, they need to be replaced.

I know quite a bit about Nascar and the way it's marketed. I've often seen it's "propaganda" on tv here, and I've seen V8Supercars try to copy it.

What you don't understand, is why this is happening. Nascar makes every effort to be relevant, because it's never been relevant in it's whole history. It may be enjoying a purple patch atm, but that's all it is.

[Mia 01]

I will Watch Fp 1,2 and 3, quali and the race, all races this year as usual.