Where is the UK headed?

[D-Type]

On the immigration issue: if Britain isn't attractiver to immigrants why is there a camp at Calais?

On the question of where is Britain headed. The problem is that for various reasons the manufacturing base that underpins the economy has been eroded at the same time as countries abroad are expanding their manufacturing capacity. We are now in the position that we have to compete with countries with lower costs, which can be due to lower wage levels and standard of living, or to having more modern plant rather than older plant that's been updated.
But, unfortunately, people's expectations have not fallen to match the fall in real national income.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

On the immigration issue: if Britain isn't attractiver to immigrants why is there a camp at Calais?
.

Well think about it.

If you are an asylum seeker who has landed first in Greece and had your application for asylum rejected then you might think you'll have another chance if you move on to Italy, the same thing happens in Italy so you move on to France. The same thing happens in France so your last shot is England. As a result the last stop is Calais because of the geography of Europe. The fact that there is a camp at Calais shows that it is harder to get into the UK than many would think.

If there are 'pull factors' attracting people to Britain then it is more likely to be the English language that they already know, not state benefits.

[Mark]

If there are 'pull factors' attracting people to Britain then it is more likely to be the English language that they already know, not state benefits.

The language, and perceived employment opportunities are a big factor.

Again my post was prompted by David Cameron saying he's going to attempt to limit immigration from within the EU, and we may even end up leaving the EU because of it. But I worry that we may end up sleep walking out of the EU because of the 'immigration problem', but what would leaving the EU do about the camps in Calais? Nothing whatsoever, because the people there don't have the right to live and work in the UK being in or out of the EU would make no difference.

[Tel 911S]

You do realise that you posted a study from Migrationwatch UK? Like they don't have an agenda of their own?

The item was picked up by many other news companies & interested organisations .
The main context was that the BBC were lying [ by omission ] about a report by an independent organisation which proved that overall immigration was costing this country an enormous amount of money .
Of course Migration Watch jumped on it , but it was not their original study , & many other non left wing media reports highlighted it .

So it would seem that the socialists are still trying to claim that immigration is good for the UK, despite overwhelming public condemnation .
BBC poll [ is immigration good for the UK ] 95% no . Not the result they wanted so they are now trying to hide the figures .

[Brown, Jon Brow]

The item was picked up by many other news companies & interested organisations .
The main context was that the BBC were lying [ by omission ] about a report by an independent organisation which proved that overall immigration was costing this country an enormous amount of money .
Of course Migration Watch jumped on it , but it was not their original study , & many other non left wing media reports highlighted it .

So it would seem that the socialists are still trying to claim that immigration is good for the UK, despite overwhelming public condemnation .
BBC poll [ is immigration good for the UK ] 95% no . Not the result they wanted so they are now trying to hide the figures .

The report originally from UCL was misinterpreted by Migrationwatch who simply guessed a lot of the figures to try and prove their point and has been blasted by academics.
http://www.cream-migration.org/comme...cle.php?blog=8

The inconvenient truth is that Britain has an ageing population with people of a pension age growing faster than the working age population. The only options to address this in the sort term are:

a) make people work longer
b) reduce the state pension
c) increase the working age population (immigrants of a working age)

This isn't some sort of socialist agenda and I understand why it is unpopular with many people, but it is simple economics and demographics.

[odykas]

Well think about it.

If you are an asylum seeker who has landed first in Greece and had your application for asylum rejected then you might think you'll have another chance if you move on to Italy, the same thing happens in Italy so you move on to France. .

Dublin regulation specifies that the country where the immigrant enters EU area is responsible to examine the asylum application. So, in case an immigrant from Tunisia lands in Italy then Italy does not allow him to move to France because that would violate the Dublin regulation and France would have any right to send him back.

The result of this agreement is that the countries in South Europe are overwhelmed with immigrants from Africa and Middle East, the vast majority of them would like to go to Germany, France, UK, Sweden, etc.

So, it's strange to me that people in UK complain about immigration problems.

[Tel 911S]

The report originally from UCL was misinterpreted by Migrationwatch who simply guessed a lot of the figures to try and prove their point and has been blasted by academics.
http://www.cream-migration.org/comme...cle.php?blog=8

The inconvenient truth is that Britain has an ageing population with people of a pension age growing faster than the working age population. The only options to address this in the sort term are:

a) make people work longer
b) reduce the state pension
c) increase the working age population (immigrants of a working age)

This isn't some sort of socialist agenda and I understand why it is unpopular with many people, but it is simple economics and demographics.

So are you trying to say that the pension shortfall is nothing to do with the fact that one of the first things Gordon Brown did when he became Chancellor was to raid the UK pension funds to the Value of something over £100 Billion .

[Brown, Jon Brow]

So are you trying to say that the pension shortfall is nothing to do with the fact that one of the first things Gordon Brown did when he became Chancellor was to raid the UK pension funds to the Value of something over £100 Billion .

I agree, it is fair to say that this contributed to the problem for some people, but not as much as an ageing population does.

But we are digressing from the thread topic here.

[driveace]

So cut they old age pension Jon ?
Just tell me how much the old age pension is Jon !

[Brown, Jon Brow]

So cut they old age pension Jon ?
Just tell me how much the old age pension is Jon !

I didn't say that I advocated cutting the state the pension, I merely stated that it is one option to address the pension shortfall.

So if that option is off the table then your other two options are going to be increasing the working population by working for longer or increasing population of working age i.e immigrants.