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  1. #301
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    I just made the list of the cars which eligible to be converted to R4 spec, and driven it into Indonesian Championship. Some of them made me interested.

    Of course the list could be shorter considering numerous things.

    1 euro = 15928.33 rupiah

    FIA R4.jpg

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  3. #302
    Senior Member racerx1979's Avatar
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    The biggest concern for me would be build costs. You would need to heavily modify the chassis in order to fit the 4wd drivetrain, wheel well modification, fuel cell mounting, updated subframe mounts, suspension turrets etc. I'm sure labor rates are cheaper in Indonesia than many countries, but the process would need to be carried out by a top spec fabrication shop. In the USA, Australia, NZ or Europe, the cost to build a chassis around an R4 spec car would be quite high. This would then bring the price close to the R5 spec after all is said and done.

    If one can buy a car directly from Oreca ready to run, such as the Toyota Etios, than it would be the best case scenario. What does one do with a one-off custom built chassis when they have an accident and need a new shell. It's not like we have a ton of Toyota Yaris R4 body shells for sale. Do you build two shells so you can have a spare? I can find a few Fiesta and Skoda R5 shells for sale in a few minutes via the popular rally classified sites.
    Last edited by racerx1979; 25th September 2017 at 11:21.

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  5. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by racerx1979 View Post
    The biggest concern for me would be build costs. You would need to heavily modify the chassis in order to fit the 4wd drivetrain, wheel well modification, fuel cell mounting, updated subframe mounts, suspension turrets etc. I'm sure labor rates are cheaper in Indonesia than many countries, but the process would need to be carried out by a top spec fabrication shop. In the USA, Australia, NZ or Europe, the cost to build a chassis around an R4 spec car would be quite high. This would then bring the price close to the R5 spec after all is said and done.

    If one can buy a car directly from Oreca ready to run, such as the Toyota Etios, than it would be the best case scenario. What does one do with a one-off custom built chassis when they have an accident and need a new shell. It's not like we have a ton of Toyota Yaris R4 body shells for sale. Do you build two shells so you can have a spare? I can find a few Fiesta and Skoda R5 shells for sale in a few minutes via the popular rally classified sites.
    Buying cars directly from Oreca is the worst scenario as well for us because the hefty tax. However i never heard any cars destroyed during rally, so the crews at here can keep their car very well (of course R4 could be challenging). If teams like Toyota Team Indonesia could support the project at here...

  6. #304
    Senior Member racerx1979's Avatar
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    Would you be paying taxes on the kit itself from Oreca? Are goods taxed similar to vehicles?

  7. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by racerx1979 View Post
    Would you be paying taxes on the kit itself from Oreca? Are goods taxed similar to vehicles?
    We rather buy the kit & pay the taxes rather than do a risky thing by buying a R5 car which hard for us to maintain because lack of car manufacturer's representatives/dealers (No Skoda, no Ford, Hyundai & Peugeot are the minnows).

    No matter what, I can assume that completed R4 cars, at least the cars which built at here, would be cheaper (a bit or a bunch, doesn't matter) than a R5 cars. (Finally there are some advantage thru government-implemented LCGC cars). What matter most is the maintenance cost because we rarely change cars, and relatively short rally (There is a sprint rally & a long-stage rally which could be done in just 1 day).

  8. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by racerx1979 View Post
    I'm trying to see if I can purchase a Dytko car for rallying in Australia. I've heard it's not an issue, but I would not be able to participate in Rally Australia since it's an FIA event part of the WRC.
    For the answers to your questions around local eligibility you need to talk with your country's ASN - CAMS. I suggest a conversation with Col Trinder - Chairman Australian Rally Commission.
    There are Dytko cars already in use in Australia as there are in New Zealand. In NZ the clock is already ticking on their shelf life for use in the domestic championship. I don't know the situation in Aus.

    I saw your earlier comment regarding quality. You'd want to speak to people who have imported these cars already.
    The concept is good and the price attractive. However, as I understand it, those imported into NZ have all undergone a major rebuild before being suitable for use there.
    Never do anything you wouldn't want to explain to a paramedic.

  9. #307
    Senior Member racerx1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sollitt View Post
    For the answers to your questions around local eligibility you need to talk with your country's ASN - CAMS. I suggest a conversation with Col Trinder - Chairman Australian Rally Commission.
    There are Dytko cars already in use in Australia as there are in New Zealand. In NZ the clock is already ticking on their shelf life for use in the domestic championship. I don't know the situation in Aus.

    I saw your earlier comment regarding quality. You'd want to speak to people who have imported these cars already.
    The concept is good and the price attractive. However, as I understand it, those imported into NZ have all undergone a major rebuild before being suitable for use there.
    Thanks for the response and quality info @sollitt

    The Polo shell I saw seemed fairly decent as far as the roll cage was concerned. I think the best thing is to buy the shell and install your own components as opposed to Dytko doing it.

    I will get in touch with Col Trinder to see what can be done to get the Proto cars into Aus.

    The other option is just to get an Evo 9 or Evo x with R4 running gear.

  10. #308
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  11. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by mArvAlcao17 View Post
    We rather buy the kit & pay the taxes rather than do a risky thing by buying a R5 car which hard for us to maintain because lack of car manufacturer's representatives/dealers (No Skoda, no Ford, Hyundai & Peugeot are the minnows).

    No matter what, I can assume that completed R4 cars, at least the cars which built at here, would be cheaper (a bit or a bunch, doesn't matter) than a R5 cars. (Finally there are some advantage thru government-implemented LCGC cars). What matter most is the maintenance cost because we rarely change cars, and relatively short rally (There is a sprint rally & a long-stage rally which could be done in just 1 day).
    What you will have to be careful of; if the R4 Kit is designed for a body shell built in Europe , there are likely to be subtle differences if trying to put the kit in a Asian made body shell.
    What you could try is get one of the official Australasian AP4 constructors (if the French R4 kit makers do not supply) make you a welding jig for the local construction of rally body shells. They have made a few car body shell welding jigs before.
    http://bit.ly/2guWKfb (VW Polo AP 4 Australia with evo gearbox) $200 000 Australian for a cost focused AP4.

    The Mazda 2 would probably be one of the lesser difficulty builds as base platform is the same as the CX and has the driveshaft tunnel as standard.
    If the Subaru wrx sti is eligible that should be looked at too as it is already 4wd.

  12. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeakiwi View Post
    What you will have to be careful of; if the R4 Kit is designed for a body shell built in Europe , there are likely to be subtle differences if trying to put the kit in a Asian made body shell.
    What you could try is get one of the official Australasian AP4 constructors (if the French R4 kit makers do not supply) make you a welding jig for the local construction of rally body shells. They have made a few car body shell welding jigs before.
    http://bit.ly/2guWKfb (VW Polo AP 4 Australia with evo gearbox) $200 000 Australian for a cost focused AP4.

    The Mazda 2 would probably be one of the lesser difficulty builds as base platform is the same as the CX and has the driveshaft tunnel as standard.
    If the Subaru wrx sti is eligible that should be looked at too as it is already 4wd.
    Noted. From the list which i made, i know that some cars could be excluded because the bodyshell is either too short or too fragile.

    So, from Indonesia's perspective, what could be: Toyota Etios, Nissan Micra & Mazda 2. don't know about the others.

    Btw, Subaru dealers at here was banned because of the tax fraud, so it's rare for me to see the cars.
    Good news is Ford will return to Indonesia, so thing getting a little bit easier

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