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  1. #381
    Armchair General Mirek's Avatar
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    Sorry but there is no sense in looking 30 years or more back. Everything is completely different now starting from the very simple fact that in those days there were plenty of independent relatively small manufacturers whereas today they are nearly all joined in several gigantic corporations.

    In that regard 9 S2000 manufacturers and 7 R5 manufacturers is huge success and it helps nothing to claim the opposite. To make things better You have to see what is good and what works not dreaming about something which was thirty years a go.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  2. Likes: pantealex (29th December 2017)
  3. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    Sorry but there is no sense in looking 30 years or more back. Everything is completely different now starting from the very simple fact that in those days there were plenty of independent relatively small manufacturers whereas today they are nearly all joined in several gigantic corporations.

    In that regard 9 S2000 manufacturers and 7 R5 manufacturers is huge success and it helps nothing to claim the opposite. To make things better You have to see what is good and what works not dreaming about something which was thirty years a go.
    The only thing I found a bit stupid in this is that for swap an "Oreca engine" into a car FIA says it's alright, but if you do everything by the book using manufacter parts and engine, FIA says you cannot homologate without the Manufacter permission (i.e. Opel and Mitsubishi).

    We had 11 different manufacters in S2000, even if only 3/4 of them were any good, and we could had 10 manufacters or cars at least in R5 now if not for this stupid rule!
    Last edited by TheFlyingTuga; 29th December 2017 at 06:36.

  4. #383
    Armchair General Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingTuga View Post
    The only thing I found a bit stupid in this is that for swap an "Oreca engine" into a car FIA says it's alright, but if you do everything by the book using manufacter parts and engine, FIA says you cannot homologate without the Manufacter permission (i.e. Opel and Mitsubishi).
    You mix two different categories which were created in different time (approximately 5 years between introduction of both classes). It's not fair to mix conditions in one sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingTuga View Post
    We had 11 different manufacters in S2000, even if only 3/4 of them were any good, and we could had 10 manufacters or cars at least in R5 now if not for this stupid rule!
    Thanks for correction but which 11? Abarth, Peugeot, Škoda, Ford, CitroŽn (RRC), Proton, VW, Toyota, Opel, MG and 11th?
    Last edited by Mirek; 29th December 2017 at 12:43.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  5. #384
    Senior Member PLuto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    Thanks for correction but which 11? Abarth, Peugeot, Škoda, Ford, CitroŽn (RRC), Proton, VW, Toyota, Opel, MG and 11th?
    If you are counting also RRC, in that case you forgot Mini.

  6. Likes: Mirek (29th December 2017)
  7. #385
    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    Sorry but there is no sense in looking 30 years or more back. Everything is completely different now starting from the very simple fact that in those days there were plenty of independent relatively small manufacturers whereas today they are nearly all joined in several gigantic corporations.
    In that regard 9 S2000 manufacturers and 7 R5 manufacturers is huge success and it helps nothing to claim the opposite. To make things better You have to see what is good and what works not dreaming about something which was thirty years a go.
    We can always learn from the past, mate. R5 is a success and that’s great for the sport but N4 wasn’t properly replaced, R1 and R3 have failed and R2 is stagnated. Currently there are fewer models available in the combined R1/R2/R3 range than in R5; that’s a clear sign of how a manu centered regulation isn’t adjusted to the sport reality.

    Besides, despite all the global changes in the car market, current rally manus (with Hyundai’s exception) were already involved in the sport from a long time, meaning rally hasn’t been able to attract new brands.

    With R5 prices inevitably going through the roof (how much will a full spec Polo cost?), there’s room for a lower budget 4wd category like R4, provided by private tuners with privateers costumers in mind. A light R2 class is also needed, probably using R4 concept: private tuners developed silhouette cars, using mandatory kits.

    As top teams and drivers will always use top rally cars, having lower budget classes available won’t hurt the sport, on the contrary, it’ll allow more privateers to get in and run alongside top competitors; clearly, a win-win situation.
    Last edited by Rally Power; 29th December 2017 at 14:29.
    Rally addict since 1982

  8. Likes: Daniel Popov (29th December 2017)
  9. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    A light R2 class is also needed, probably using R4 concept: private tuners developed silhouette cars, using mandatory kits.
    A spec R2 isn't a good option either tbh, what i want is lower tech like removal of sequential shift

  10. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    You mix two different categories which were created in different time (approximately 5 years between introduction of both classes). It's not fair to mix conditions in one sentence
    Yeah, I know that, but wouldn't it be easier to allow small racing shops to try their hand at the R5 class as well? And some other R class


    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    Thanks for correction but which 11? Abarth, Peugeot, Škoda, Ford, CitroŽn (RRC), Proton, VW, Toyota, Opel, MG and 11th?
    My bad, I meant 10 cars, not counting the RRC (at least the Mini is accounted in Wikipedia as a S2000 Car) but counting the Lada 112 Vk S2000, that as far as I know had FIA papers, but never raced outside of Russia.

  11. #388
    Senior Member Arnold Triyudho Wardono's Avatar
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    Little bit OOT, but what's the differences between Dytko's Proto with Evolve's..?

    That Yaris looks good..

    Sent from my A12 using Tapatalk

  12. #389
    Senior Member racerx1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mArvAlcao17 View Post
    A spec R2 isn't a good option either tbh, what i want is lower tech like removal of sequential shift
    That is what the R1 class does. Search for R1 MSport Fiesta. No sequential. Not even sure if it is a dogbox...

  13. #390
    Armchair General Mirek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mArvAlcao17 View Post
    A spec R2 isn't a good option either tbh, what i want is lower tech like removal of sequential shift
    What's wrong with sequential gearbox? It's very reliable solution. Even cheap Adam cup cars have sequential gearbox and the concept works great. For me Adam cup cars are a great example how it can be done.

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