Page 28 of 37 FirstFirst ... 182627282930 ... LastLast
Results 271 to 280 of 361
  1. #271
    Senior Member Jarek Z's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Wroclaw
    Posts
    5,688
    Like
    1,083
    Liked 1,050 Times in 568 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by racerx1979 View Post
    I'm trying to see if I can purchase a Dytko car for rallying in Australia. I've heard it's not an issue
    I think it shouldn't be a problem. Some Dytko cars have been competing in New Zealand for a long time.
    http://nzrallychamps.co.nz/nzrc-driv...nnon-chambers/
    http://nzrallychamps.co.nz/race-agai...iting-new-car/

    Here's Shannon Chambers and his Dytko Polo Proto:

    http://www.rallymadness.prv.pl - rally photos and movies!

  2. #272
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Flatlands of West Lancs
    Posts
    26
    Like
    34
    Liked 8 Times in 6 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal the 2nd View Post
    Cant see the point in R4 really certainly when touted as a cheaper alternative to R5 but limited to a single supplier of the kits. This seems to fly in the face of opening up the market. We've already talked about the Maxi cars in Argentina etc and the UK has a log history of men in sheds building great cars, Andy Burton being at the forefront. Trouble is the RACMSA outlawed most of them so can see them having kittens about any new wave of machinery...
    Ah, the good old MSA......friend to rallying since when??

  3. #273
    Senior Member Jarek Z's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Wroclaw
    Posts
    5,688
    Like
    1,083
    Liked 1,050 Times in 568 Posts
    M-Sport chief rally engineer Chris Williams doesn't believe in the idea of R4 cars:
    https://rallysportmag.com/m-sport-un...4-kit-formula/
    http://www.rallymadness.prv.pl - rally photos and movies!

  4. #274
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    338
    Like
    0
    Liked 8 Times in 7 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal the 2nd View Post
    Cant see the point in R4 really certainly when touted as a cheaper alternative to R5 but limited to a single supplier of the kits. This seems to fly in the face of opening up the market. We've already talked about the Maxi cars in Argentina etc and the UK has a log history of men in sheds building great cars, Andy Burton being at the forefront. Trouble is the RACMSA outlawed most of them so can see them having kittens about any new wave of machinery...
    If the new cars are based on the same FIA bulkhead & floor modification limits that apply to R5 cars then anyone should be able to build one in his shed & get an MSA Cat2 logbook. If you build one from a kit where more than 20 kits are supplied a year you may even manage to convince them it's a "Specialist Rally Car" and get a Cat1 book.

  5. #275
    Senior Member GravelBen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    NZ
    Posts
    320
    Like
    261
    Liked 324 Times in 134 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarek Z View Post
    M-Sport chief rally engineer Chris Williams doesn't believe in the idea of R4 cars:
    https://rallysportmag.com/m-sport-un...4-kit-formula/
    Nothing at all to do with the fact that a fair chunk of M-sport's business involves selling and running r5 cars of course!

    (Not that I'm cynical or anything...)

  6. Likes: Munkvy (17th September 2017),pantealex (15th September 2017)
  7. #276
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    284
    Like
    5
    Liked 119 Times in 78 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Boyd View Post
    If the new cars are based on the same FIA bulkhead & floor modification limits that apply to R5 cars then anyone should be able to build one in his shed & get an MSA Cat2 logbook. If you build one from a kit where more than 20 kits are supplied a year you may even manage to convince them it's a "Specialist Rally Car" and get a Cat1 book.
    Steve appreciate totally what you are saying and my post was a little tongue in cheek. I'm aware of cars like Craig Pennington's Polo etc just know how risk averse our governing body are getting. I still don't believe that there will be an appetite in the UK for this formula though as the cost will be high and cant see the local importers getting on board its not like the BTCC where they are happy to see other manufacturers parts being used in their cars. Also with M Sport being the "home" team the trickle down of cheaper WRC and R5 cars will be the default choice for a lot of drivers.

  8. #277
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    338
    Like
    0
    Liked 8 Times in 7 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal the 2nd View Post
    Steve appreciate totally what you are saying and my post was a little tongue in cheek. I'm aware of cars like Craig Pennington's Polo etc just know how risk averse our governing body are getting. I still don't believe that there will be an appetite in the UK for this formula though as the cost will be high and cant see the local importers getting on board its not like the BTCC where they are happy to see other manufacturers parts being used in their cars. Also with M Sport being the "home" team the trickle down of cheaper WRC and R5 cars will be the default choice for a lot of drivers.
    I know what you mean - I was writing somewhat hypothetically! Anyone trying to build a car to the FIA drawings themselves still has to climb a mountain to convince the MSA that what they've done is OK. As you say, with the trickle-down of old WRC & R5 cars added to the S2500 & R5+ options that are avaiable it's unlikely that we'll see much of either Dytko or R4 cars in the UK.

  9. #278
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Indonesia
    Posts
    41
    Like
    0
    Liked 12 Times in 5 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by racerx1979 View Post
    I spoke with a contact who works for a WRC team and he mentioned an interesting point about the R4 cars. He said countries like Indonesia and even Australia have large taxes on imports. People who want a Skoda or Fiesta R5 in Indonesia to compete on the APRC would have to pay a large amount on taxes to import the cars. The R4 class allowing people to add their kit into any car that has a certain number of cars manufactured overcomes this issue. So a lot of people in Indonesia, Australia and other countries where import duty taxes are insane will benefit from these cars. Hence why Oreca are showing the Toyota Etios as a base car. This little Toyota was mainly for South America and Asian markets. The same markets which pay hefty duties if trying to import a car which is not sold in their region... So the target for R4 is most likely not Europe...
    Firstly, let me introduce myself.

    My name is Marv, and i'm a rally enthusiast and freelance journalist. In my Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/indonesianrallyfanbase/) I post quite a lot about the R4 because rallying at here is currently suffering, which one of the causes is lack of exciting cars on 4WD category, currently only fielding old Group N cars.

    No people buy and run R5's at national championship because:
    1. As the quote above said, the import tax is very expensive, which is 120%.

    2. To made things worse, Indonesia goverment banned people from import used cars. Rally cars must run thru public roads on road section.

    3. So, for example a new Skoda Fabia R5 price is (what i found from internet) €221,000. And with 120% tax = €265,200, which if converted into Rupiah means 4,2 billion, which is far too much.

    4. Lack of manufacturers which build R5. From 9 manufacturers (both factory & privateer), there are only Hyundai, Peugeot, Proton and Mitsubishi whose sold their road cars in Indonesia (Ford withdrew last year). And all of them are quite inferior compared to Toyota & Honda, especially Peugeot & proton. That also means it's difficult to import spare parts.

    There are no Mirage R5 at here, which the road car is quite popular on Indonesian road.

    I, and many other people at here, is hopeful about R4 because we can build cars from stuff at here (Etios for example, which at here named Etios Valco). We know the complete car are still expensive, for example:

    R4 kit + 120% tax (don't know the exact percentage): 108.000+22.000=130.000 euros
    Brand new/used Toyota Etios Valco (at here Toyota's re-sell price are strong): 9500 euros
    Manufacturing & development price: 6400 euros

    So, the total=145.900 euros, or let say it 150.000 euros, which is 2.4 billions if converted to Rupiahs. That's quite a half fron R5 car completed with tax.

    And there are some cars which cost even less than Etios Valco, like Honda Brio, which costs 7300 euros, or Datsun Go.

    My calculations could be wrong though, but we try to save money as much as possible, and for us R4 is perfect. I admit that Oreca can cut something unimportant/too expensive to make it cheaper.

  10. #279
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    852
    Like
    167
    Liked 544 Times in 192 Posts
    You still need to remember about motorsport pieces which are not part of R4 kit - dampers - good ones would be 10k, seats, belts, extinguishers, all smaller things, etc, etc.

  11. #280
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Indonesia
    Posts
    41
    Like
    0
    Liked 12 Times in 5 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by br21 View Post
    You still need to remember about motorsport pieces which are not part of R4 kit - dampers - good ones would be 10k, seats, belts, extinguishers, all smaller things, etc, etc.
    I know, but not sure the tuners at here would choose the high quality one. Usually they choose the cheaper one, or for wealthiest teams like Pertamax Motorsport, the between.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •