The most complete driver on the grid?

[Doc Austin]

I would argue that it's difficult, if not impossible, to judge a modern driver's 'completeness' given the range of information at their disposal from the pits. Does the concept of a 'complete' driver exist any more?

"Complete" just changed, that's all. In Fangio's day, you just had to drive the car. Today you have to be able to use the information to your advantage to be complete.

To be complete, you have to be able to do whatever it takes to get the most out of the car and yourself.

[The Black Knight]

So what you're saying is, you get seduced by the stats?

Rosberg has only had a race winning car since 2012. Schumacher, since the start of his career. Rosberg started winning as soon as he got into a race winning car. I remember Schumacher's early wins, he was pretty fortunate. Mansell would've had him at Belgium, til electrical problems held him back late. Prost could've won in Portugal, but let Schumacher have the win, since 2nd would seal the title. There's also the very suspicious 94 Benetton. It's interesting that Schumacher's huge success started once the sporting regs meant there was a bigger influence from the pits. As in, not as a result of his driving.

Being the most complete driver isn't about the just the stats or the fact that Schumacher cheated. Though, to be honest, the only clear cut place I see where he actually cheated was Jerez 97 and Monaco 06. As for his driving, Hungary, Canada, Argentina 98., Spain 96 and the list goes on. If you can't recognize those drives, especially Hungary 98, as one of the greatest on the sport then I'm really not sure why you are watching F1?

Like it or not, Schumacher raised the game of what it was to be a racing driver in terms of fitness and his working with the team. I can't think of any driver in history that has had the sort of impact he has had on the sport. Senna certainly didn't, neither did Prost. Do I believe Schumacher was the fastest driver ever in the sport? No, but he wasn't far from it. I also think over one lap Senna & Hamilton would have had, on average, probably would taken him. When it came to the race, how he prepared for it, worked with Engineers before and after to get everything from the car, that's a different story. So, yes, I regard him as being the most complete driver because of overall how he did his job on and off the track, not necessarily because his overall skill beind the wheel of the car. Even Alonso recently said that he regarded Schumacher as his toughest competitor.

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/56316...m#.VAbJ9mO5RmY

It's up to you whom you chose to be the most complete but it's hard to argue against Schumacher before his retirement in 2006. He had his flaws, but he was still brilliant.

I don't know. Using the term "germ", a personal jibe, suggests it might have a teeny weeny impact?

No, I put that in there to mislead you.

I remember at the start of 10. Everybody banging on about how successful Schumacher was going to be, Rosberg was going to get shown up. Nowadays? Fans go on the internet and reflect in glowing terms of what was a mediocre three seasons. Hehehe

People have realized that Rosberg was underrated. To be honest, I always said I thought Schumacher was doing a fine job because I recognized how good Rosberg was when he was at William's. In fact, if you go back through my posts, there are specifically posts where I say that when Hamilton joined Mercedes he wouldn't have the easy ride people thought he would because Nico was underrated. I also said that I felt this would make people realize that Schumacher, in his final year at least, didn't do too bad a job at all. In fact, I think he was the better driver that year, only surpassed by Rosberg because of reliability issues.

[journeyman racer]

Schumacher raised the level through fitness and working with the team? Nothing to do with driving skills. He benefitted a lot from the info he got from the pit, particularly from the performance you've mentioned. Even an idiot like Eddie Irvine put in "Schumacher like" drives, once Schumacher was gone. Like in Austria (and even like Germany!)

Joachim Winkelhock>Michael Schumacher.

[airshifter]

As for being most complete, I have to agree with the vast majority of what The Black Knight said above regarding Schumacher.

Did he at times have the best car, a great team, or have cheated? Sure. But other than a couple of occasions his cheating was IMO, a result of being mentally in the game at all times, taking a calculated risk, and losing that bet. It doesn't excuse it, but shows his head was in the game to win at all costs. Though I don't like when people cheat, I can appreciate that his passion was that great that he overlooked possible damage to his reputation in the interest of finishing 1st. In that regard it's not as if Alonso is squeaky clean either, he was involved in Spygate data himself.

But Alonso vs Schumacher if they were both in their prime, in equal cars? I think those on track battles would make Nico vs Lewis look pale in comparison. Not that there driving abilities are that much better overall, but because they are mentally tough. Schumacher was famous for applying pressure that never ended, and putting in fast laps when needed, especially pit in and pit out laps to retain a lead or make a pass while in the pits. As I mentioned at the thread start, Alonso is also a master of pressure and can make a move where others don't even think about it.

But I would also venture to say that at the end of a good battle, both Alonso and MS would retain their composure on the podium, having completely enjoyed a tough battle on track and admitting when they got beat without a lot of whining and excuses.

[journeyman racer]

At a time of winning F1 titles. Schumacher wouldn't have even won a DTM. Hehehe

[Garry Walker]

Vettel is a bit of a mystery right now. there is no way he is as bad as he is showing. I think the work and pressure to perform at the level to win four consecutive championships probably burned him out and throwing a totally new type of car into the mix was too much for him to deal with. You don't forget how to drive over a single winter, and remember, this is the guy who effortlessly made Mark Webber look ordinary. I believe Marko said Vettel is tired, and I believe it.

Webber was one of the worst drivers on the grid the last few years - a complete joke.


Most well-rounded driver is certainly Alonso. He is strong in every field, knows how to attack and defend, has great instincts in wheel to wheel battles, basically, he has no weaknesses.

Hamilton speed wise is close, but I feel he is more vulnerable to mistakes and errors than Alonso.

Other drivers are far off.

[steveaki13]

Webber was one of the worst drivers on the grid the last few years - a complete joke.


Most well-rounded driver is certainly Alonso. He is strong in every field, knows how to attack and defend, has great instincts in wheel to wheel battles, basically, he has no weaknesses.

Hamilton speed wise is close, but I feel he is more vulnerable to mistakes and errors than Alonso.

Other drivers are far off.

What about Vettel?

[keysersoze]

Alonso pips Hamilton in my book.

Then Rosberg, but I feel he is a bit dirty (remember Bahrain about 3 years ago?), co-equal with Vettel.

The next couple of years will see if Ricciardo and Bottas break into this group. Both very impressive and surprising the heck out of me this season.

[yodasarmpit]

Alonso.

[truefan72]

Alonso
Hamilton,
Hulkenberg
Ricciardo


probably in that order