Spriklers

[schmenke]

Take away the push to pass, mandatory tire compound changes, and put them on better road race tracks ....

This is probably the single biggest reason I don't watch IndyCar.

[steveaki13]

This will probably make Jag's head explode, but right now the purest and best racing on the planet is Indycar. If people could set aside their prejudice, STFU, and make a miniscule attempt to actually enjoy themselves, they would really have a good time with Indycar.

Personally I hate the mandatory/prime/option tire BS, and I hate the small fuel cells make fuel mileage races more possible, but for the most part they get it right and even crappy places like Houston and Toronto now put of great shows, simply because the car is so damm racey.

See, Indycar (outside of the tire snafu) doesn't try to make the racing fake. If a race sucks, it just sucks. Here's the car....make it work. No drs, no kers, no ers, no nothing. Go fast or go home. The rules are the same for everyone.

I know you guys over there can get it. Give it a fair chance.

I do watch Indycar when I can, its good racing.

[Doc Austin]

Take away the push to pass, mandatory tire compound changes, and put them on better road race tracks.

I agree, street racing is very destructive.

and IndyCar would be much closer racing than F1 probably.

Indycar racing has always been closer than F1.

I just don't like the ovals as much, or the really small circuits.

Watch and learn. I didn't like them much either until CART started road racing, and then the diversity of the whole package became pretty appealing.

[airshifter]

Doc,

Don't get me wrong, Indycars on ovals are better than NASCAR on ovals. It's just predictable at times. Pocono has an example of that. JPM had the race in hand, and everyone else was fighting for scraps. I'd much rather watch them fight on the road courses. The small courses still provide good racing, but often limit passing opportunities without banzai moves that can bring out the yellow flags.


I've mentioned a few times here in the F1 forums that I think F1 could learn a great deal from Indycar when it comes to cutting chicanes. In F1 if you gain advantage it's often ignored unless you make a pass. In Indycar they seem to monitor advantage as advantage and take it back more often.

Push to pass and KERS/ERS/whatever are really used in similar fashion but the limited use of push to pass does bring it into play only when the pass or a real defending advantage is at least possible usually. I really don't like the DRS much, but overall I think the Indycar package allows passing without it better, so it seems less artificial.

[Doc Austin]

Don't get me wrong, Indycars on ovals are better than NASCAR on ovals. It's just predictable at times. Pocono has an example of that. JPM had the race in hand, and everyone else was fighting for scraps.

Pocono was the one big blowout we have had for awhile. it was not very competitive, but that just may have been down to Montoya

I'd much rather watch them fight on the road courses.

I like road racing too, but what ruins it is that the yellows always seem to fall at the right time to cheat a deserving, Helio had Toronto absolutely won, but a badly timed yellow put him in the back with the jacklys who ruined his race

The small courses still provide good racing, but often limit passing opportunities without banzai moves that can bring out the yellow flags.

Fortunately the new cars can hit flank to flank, so in that respect it is a lot like sportscar racing.If you ever get to see the in-car theatres, man, that is some hairy stuff.

Banzia moves also are a result of that's all you can do when someone is blocking. In the old days, chopping, blocking and swerving you get you killed, so no one did it and passing was much fairer and cleaner.

I've mentioned a few times here in the F1 forums that I think F1 could learn a great deal from Indycar when it comes to cutting chicanes.

So many guys cut the chicane at Houston this year without penalty that I don't know why they even put it in.

I think they need to just put a big block of concrete there and if you hit it your penalty is self enforcing. Today if you run off the track you run off onto asphalt and you can rejoin losing only a few seconds. In that past, you would die. I don't want to see people dying, but I also don't want to see them run of the track with no consequence.

Push to pass and KERS/ERS/whatever are really used in similar fashion but the limited use of push to pass does bring it into play only when the pass or a real defending advantage is at least possible usually.

We call it "push to block" because that's when most drivers seem to use it. It's just a gimmick I wish they would get rid of it.

That, or give them unlimited pushes, make it 100 extra horsepower, but build into the system a random number of pushes before the thing blows up. That would put great fun into passing and the explosions would be great.

I really don't like the DRS much, but overall I think the Indycar package allows passing without it better, so it seems less artificial.

DRS and push to pass are phoney. Mandatory option tires are phoney. There is so much phoney stuff going on that this is the real reason people are losiong interest. racing needs to be real again.

[Ranger]

racing needs to be real again.

As in, no overtaking except for in the pits and off the start-line?

[Warriwa]

In regards to running wide on corners, I would like to see polished concrete put down outside the curbs. Expensive but incredibly slippery. No traction. Spin if accelerate. Driver is penalized with no damage. Only in large run off areas of course.

[Tazio]

As in, no overtaking except for in the pits and off the start-line?

I'll take real competition over real spectacle every time.

[Ranger]

I'll take real competition over real spectacle every time.

What is real competition? Front-engined cars, spoke wheels and narrow tyres?

When I joined this forum, everyone complained about how boring the races were. Everyone wished there was more overtaking. It wasn't uncommon to see highlights reels including passes for 14th. In races like Valencia in 2009 there were no overtakes at all.

Now there's plenty of wheel-to-wheel action and everyone is complaining that it is all fake, and they would prefer it as it was... whatever that means.

I questioned a lot of the recent rule changes and I still think a lot of the new regulations being brought in (double points, standing restarts, etc) are rubbish. But on the whole they have been acceptable, in my opinion.

As for viewing figures falling...

That has everything to do with TV rights being signed away to those who give FOM the most money. I.e. Rights being exclusively signed away to Pay TV channels in countries where there was otherwise a large free-to-air TV audience.

I don't think they have anything to do with rule changes at all.

[Tazio]

I can't speak for other people, but I never complained on this forum or anywhere else that F1 is boring, and to be honest I don't give a crap that other people do. You have never been able to see all F1 races in my country free, and viewer ratings sky-rocked when F1 moved to NBC. However that is just fodder for Bernie and his gang to justify the way they shamelessly pimp the sport. My point about "real competition" is a generic one, meaning F1 should have a little more interest in it's integrity, and little less in it's image, JMHO bro. If destruction be it's lot, let it come. I'd rather see it disappear, than listen to how much it needs to change for the sake of commercial interest, I'm really sick, and disgusted with that, and I think it is best to keep it in the board meetings.