The Official Sebastian Vettel Fan Support Group Thread

[CNR]

t is not as if a team can brainwash a driver when he leaves the team setup data and whatnot

[driveace]

Well I think Vettel can manage the tyres better.
As if the Mercedes had not had to pit 3 times against Vettel,s twice,then the race could have been different and maybe seen a different result

[Doc Austin]

I admired the way Vettel won his first and third championships because he had to fight like hell the whole way. His other two were really good, if not a bit too easy. Still, two hard fought championships that went to the last lap of the season is enough to make anyone a great.

When you consider Gilles Villeneuve won six grands prix and no championships, yet is on almost everyone's top 10 list, you have to wonder why so many people want to discredit what Vettel has done.

People can make all kinds of excuses why Vettel won in the Ferrari while in the last year the God-like Alonso could not, but the fact remains that Vettel has won not only in the Red Bull, the Ferrari, and unbelievably, a Torro Rosso! Were all three of those the best cars on the grid at the time?

After all of the years of Senna and Prost trying to pinch each other into the pit wall and succeeding to determine the championship twice by crashing into each other on purpose, not to mention the Schumacher years of constant, non stop chopping, blocking, swerving and assailing compeditors "deliberately, but instinctually," one might think fans would be happy to have a champion in Vettel who races fair, clean and wins well.

Vettel is a rare talent, perhaps the best of his generation. When you consider his success has been against people like Alonso and Hamilton, Kimmi and Button, it's not like he did not have anyone good to beat.

It simply baffles me why some people just can't bring themselves to see Vettel is a great champion. You don't have to like him, but there is no denying his success or his talent and determination. Last season would have completely broken most drivers, but instead Vettel is only three points behind the leading Mercedes and ahead of the other one!

I can't believe you people have me cheering for a damm Ferrari now!

[Tazio]

I can't believe they have me cheering for a dog-blasted McLaren.

[journeyman racer]

Interesting that Doc rates Vettel's 12 c'ship win, and hadn't mentioned 11. I on the other hand, don't rate 12 at all. To me, 12 is purely a reflection of the superiority of the RB, and emphasise to me that the season is too long. I rate 11 as his best win. Because he had the best car, and he drove accordingly. This was reflected in a dominant season. 10, and 12 in particular, are seasons which highlight the overall superiority of Alonso, despite not winning those titles.

[zako85]

I admired the way Vettel won his first and third championships because he had to fight like hell the whole way. His other two were really good, if not a bit too easy. Still, two hard fought championships that went to the last lap of the season is enough to make anyone a great.

*snip*

Doc Austin, great post. I couldn't have said it better myself. And it's great that you bring the list of the major scandals, such as cheating allegations or championship deciding wrecks, that should have tainted the careers of some of the "greats" in F1 racing (but somehow have not, since we still call them greats..). On the other hand, Vettel was able to win pretty cleanly even the closely contested championships, like in 2010 and 2012, without championship deciding crashes, or other antics.

In my opinion, right now there are only two blemishes on Vettel's otherwise great racing career. First is the constant allegation that we were not treated to a good intra-team battle between Vettel and someone else. Some people argue that Webber was past his peak after 2010 and could not have responded to Vettel adequately. Others say, that Webber was simply crippled and beaten into submission by the team. Whichever is the case, the fact remains that Vettel had little competition from his teammate, while Prost and Senna had to breath down each other's necks many times in the race. The second is the bizarre 2014 season, which still needs some explaining. But then again, look at one of the other "greats" of our time, Hamilton. Didn't he lose to Button in 2011? There was no explanation from Lewis about that either.

All in all, these are two relatively small blemishes on an otherwise pretty fine record record so far.

[Big Ben]

Maybe some championships were fought to the very last race because the driver in the dominant car was not that dominant himself.

[zako85]

Maybe some championships were fought to the very last race because the driver in the dominant car was not that dominant himself.

Or may be the opposite was true? Perhaps Vettel pushed the car above and beyond its capabilities in 2010 and 2012 if you happen to judge the car performance by what Webber did with it? People who argued that Alonso drove his Ferraris beyond what they were meant to do often insisted on using as Massa's results as the yardstick of where Ferrari should have really finished. Why can't this same argument be applied to Vettel in order to explain how Vettel drove his RBR car so that he extracted the impossible 110% of its possible performance?

I think this argument will never end. One side will say that the glass is half full, the other will say that the glass is half empty.

But if you say that the glass is half empty, why stop at Vettel? Let's also throw Button under the bus, as well as Mansell, with his Newey designed 1992 car, at least a couple of Schumacher's titles, Prost's 1993 title, and who knows what else.

[zako85]

Interesting that Doc rates Vettel's 12 c'ship win, and hadn't mentioned 11. I on the other hand, don't rate 12 at all. To me, 12 is purely a reflection of the superiority of the RB, and emphasise to me that the season is too long. I rate 11 as his best win. Because he had the best car, and he drove accordingly. This was reflected in a dominant season. 10, and 12 in particular, are seasons which highlight the overall superiority of Alonso, despite not winning those titles.

I admit that it certainly MAY have been possible that Vettel's RBR was a better car than Alonso's Ferrari, but only in the second half of season, when the teams had figured out how to use the 2012 spec tires. However, towards the end of year, it was also pretty obvious that McLaren was the superior car at the end of season. Fernando and Seb were fighting for something like third and second place at best most of the time.

[jens]

Oh, we are going through this again.

Admittedly 2010 wasn't a very strong season by Vettel, it contained a number of mistakes and he was still green as a driver. However, it was a weird year in which all title contenders made mistakes and this somewhat balanced the game. Plus Vettel had reliability issues and lost about 3 wins that year, which made the points closer.

2012 was a better season for Vettel, especially the second half of the year. Perhaps Alonso was slightly more impressive overall, but I was pretty satisfied with Vettel's performance that year. He also had to come back twice from the back of the field (Abu Dhabi, Brazil), so it is not like title was handed to him on a silver platter - he had to fight for it, at times even against odds. Also 2012 was the year in which driving standards were very high, certainly more-so than 2010. In 2012 also Hamilton had an excellent year, but now it was his turn to lose something like 3-4 race wins with reliability issues.