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  1. #1
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    Top 10 Driver Rankings of past seasons

    To go with the past pre-season predictions thread, I decided to put some retrospective driver rankings of past seasons cos I thought it might be interesting. Feel free to comment.


    1994

    10.Johnny Herbert - Lotus wasn't too bad a car, but it was worst of the established teams, so Herbert did well to lead the team. His latent talent was shown with 4th on the grid at Monza - where on earth did he get that from? Finished close to the points on his one-off with Ligier too but disappointed in his final 2 races for Benetton.

    9.David Coulthard - Another driver with a disjointed season. In the circumstances impressed, though never outqualified Hill. Could have won Portugal and was right up there at Monza before running out of fuel.

    8.Ukyo Katayama - Pulled a great season out of nowhere to surprise everywhere. It was a VERY Maldonado-2012-like season, but without the big result, and wasting many good opportunities with errors, but the pace was there.

    7.Heinz-Harald Frentzen - Fantastic 5th on the grid on debut, only outqualified by his team-mate once all season. A fixture in the top 10 in qualifying, with some sensational performances including fastest at Jerez on Friday (before being bumped to 3rd the next day) and 4th in Japan. Couldn't convert into big results though came 5th in only his second race.

    6.Rubens Barrichello - Another driver who wowed by finishing a brilliant 6th in the WDC with 19pts! And he could have had so much more. Compare this to Irvine's 6pts, and you see he did a brilliant job. Another driver usually up there in qualifying - including that pole position at Spa. However, spinning out in race amongst other things highlighted racecraft was lacking somewhat.

    5.Jean Alesi - Very quick and very unfortunate, especially losing a certain win at Monza from pole.

    4.Gerhard Berger - Gerhard is ahead of Alesi here because he was no slower, but had a much better head, putting together a great season - including 6 podiums, and that memorable win at Hockenheim on his way to a clear 3rd in the championship with 41pts, to signal Ferrari's resurgence and recovery from an awful 3 past seasons.

    3.Mika Hakkinen - just misses out on 2nd although I feel he was much quicker than Damon. Outqualified Brundle in every race - and only Schumacher had ever managed that before. Scored 5 podiums but never looked like winning as the car was far too slow. Was banned for a race for causing a crash - he had been involved in several collisions but overall did a great job to come 4th overall, with a strong final part of the season to vault up the standings.

    2.Damon Hill - Previously a no.2, suddenly and without warning had the focus and expectation to fight for the title in terrible circumstances. He probably had a big role in sorting out the Williams car from it's shaky start, given the same thing happened when he was at Arrows and Jordan. Co-incidence? This is why he just sneaked 2nd here, as well as putting together a better season than Hakkinen, maximising every opportunity when many others would have crumbled. Tellingly, it wasn't he who cracked at the season finale, and he would probably have won that race even without the infamous collision. However, while Williams was nowhere near as dominant as before, they on balance surely had the best car again by some margin.

    1.Michael Schumacher - Taking Benetton to unknown heights was an incredible job when Williams and McLaren had previously been unbeatable. Traction control rumours put a dampener on things, but this would certainly be countered by the large number of disqualifications, without which Michael could have won 12 or more races out of 16!
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    F1 1995

    1.Schumacher - Who else baby?
    2.Alesi - some way off Hakkinen, but when he was on it... Made few mistakes and put together a season so good he challenged for the title in the first half. However, Schumacher would have won the WDC as easily as in the Benetton.
    3.Hakkinen - 2nd quickest out there by some way, but so many incidents meaning only 17pts.
    4.Coulthard - For his 1st full season, to practically match Damon in qual was good. Missed out on several wins.
    5.Hill - talking about annus horribilis. What a waste of a DOMINANT car dude! Can't blam Frank for being miffed tbh.
    6.Frentzen - great season, so many points finishes. Annihlated team-mates. 6th in Portugal from the back with modern-day-level retirements (i.e. barely any) was suuuuper.
    7.Irvine - Consistently qualified up there, though the ONLY reason he headed Rubens here is because Rubens had car problems and was psyched out. Irvine knew he couldn't do it on raw talent. Sounds like Rosberg and Hamilton really.
    8.Berger - meh, but appeared to win Brazil when Schu an DC temporarily DSQd
    9.Barrichello - Annus horribilis. Chronic car problems hugely held him back early in the season, but after that still a little behind Irvine in qualifying, all because of his mind. If you thought Lewis' 2011 was bad... Still did better than Irvine in races and finished ahead in the WDC. Unbelievable misfortune in losing 3rd coming out of the final corner in Hungary after 77 laps, sliding to 7th. Also lost points at Spain and Britain on the last lap!
    10.Salo - Blew away Katayama, after Ukyo's brilliant 94.
    11.Lamy - Had the beating of Badoer returning after a difficult time.
    12.Verstappen - Some astonishing performances in that Simtek, including almost points!
    13.Brundle - Shone against Panis, and came close to some amazing results, hounding DC for 3rd at Magny-Cours and losing out on a big result at Spa on the last lap, Bourdais style. Still got 3rd though. Outqualified Panis 8-3. Not bad for a part-timer.
    14.Panis - Didn't look so solidly consistent this time, making errors. But had a great way of picking up points.
    15.Herbert - Ironically, the 2 wins owed much to good fortune. Most successful season by far, but sucked, though he was stuffed by Flav.
    16.Morbidelli - Mainly for that 3rd place and the way he held off the much faster McLaren of Blundell.
    17.Badoer - Matched Martini for pace, qualified 12th in Hungary and 13th(12th?) in Argentina. It was he who was kept on rather than Martini who was like a Minardi family member.
    18.Blundell - oh dear. Slower than Brundle, and without as good race pace. Scored more later in the year, but no podiums was a bit poor, especially losing out to Morbidelli.
    19.Martini - Ok but not remarkable or as tenacious as 94.
    20.Gachot - Led the improved team as well as he could. Not his fault he was rusty on return. I was really fond of Gachot so maybe biased...?
    21.Katayama - 1994 form vanished as Tyrrell less competitive.
    22.Diniz - Very good in races. Better against Moreno than expected?
    23.Montermini - Pretty good but others were better.
    24.Bouillon - pass.
    25.Moreno - Out for 4 years and Diniz ridiculously favoured. Did alright then considering.
    26.Schiatterella - Not the worst driver, certainly not. But not good.
    27.Inoue - Surprise!
    Last edited by rjbetty; 9th June 2014 at 07:50.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member steveaki13's Avatar
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    How the hell do you have Schiater-nutella as 26th and Inoue only 27th man...... Clearly injustice.

    Good work though
    I still exist and still find the forum occasionally. Busy busy

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    F1 1996

    24.Lavaggi - Could you kindly move aside please?
    23.Rosset - Race winner in British F3, 2nd in F3000 1995, nowhere in F1.
    22.Montermini - Got no.2 treatment, but well off Badoer.
    21.Katayama - Definite improvement over 1995, but couldn't score points to save his life...
    20.Diniz - exceeded all expectations. Mature approach bagged 2 points finishes.
    19.Marques - 14th on the grid in Argentina ahead of Brundle and co? Wooooo
    18.Badoer - Not much to say. Looked much better than he did at Ferrari in 2009, that's for sure.
    17.Verstappen - Often good races, often wasted by crashes.
    16.Herbert - a bit lame tbh
    15.Lamy - underrated, very much so imo. And all because of a difficult debut at Lotus. Reminds me of Heidfeld in that way.
    14.Salo - Tyrrell improved slightly. Still easily beat Katayama.
    13.Brundle - like his 1992, dreadful first half, only 3pts in first 13 races! Then a 4th at attritional Monza then a great 5th on his finale.
    12.Panis - Much impoved. Monaco still a great drive even with outrageous fortune.
    11.Berger - Meh Meh Meh!!!!! But stuffed by Flav, and this must be the year the car was wrong for his height. Believe me, I know how utterly delibilitaing this is so maybe I'm really harsh here!
    10.Fisichella - Yeah I'm biased, deal with it! 2nd best debutant of 96. Beat Lamy who beat Badoer who matched Martini, and this is year 1, and only a half season.
    9.Frentzen - Usual good performance, but 1995 it was not. Faded later on but came 6th at Suzuka.
    8.Irvine - Quite quick but kept retiring and moaning.
    7.Alesi - For all your experience, you sucked. For all the fans saying he was better than Schumacher in 1995(!!!!) look what you did in his car - very little of note. Hmphh!
    6.Barrichello - Underrated underrated underrated. Much better for most of the season than 95, much stronger than given credit for, but faded quite badly in final races as things got stale and disagreed with Eddie Jordan. Also, moments like spinning out of 3rd at Interlagos failed to convince.
    5.Coulthard - first season settling in. Car only 4th best at best but got 2 podiums. Far better than any other no.2 since Berger (not including Mika's late '93 flurry).
    4.Villeneuve - Yes it was sensational and he did really well, but several planets behind Hamilton's debut season, so maybe shouldn't compare them.
    3.Hill - Put together a good season (though wobbled late on) - though so you bloody should, in a car even more dominant than 1995! One of the top drivers, though crashing out in Spain after attempting "just once", as Mark Hughes put it, to take a corner the way Schumacher did, put him right off the track into retirement - since this was pre-playstation-F1 era (i.e. if you go off, simply rejoin).
    2.Hakkinen - 2nd cos he was quicker than Hill I think, especially impressive coming back from almost death. 31pts a great haul in the slowest McLaren of all the mid 90s ones...
    1.Schumacher - For all those who say Schumacher only looked good cos he had the best car (he didn't much of the time btw) and that the Mercedes comeback was a true picture and he couldn't win without a good car, I would take issue, and in way of correction, direct you to the 1996 Spanish GP.
    Last edited by rjbetty; 9th June 2014 at 08:21.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveaki13 View Post
    How the hell do you have Schiater-nutella as 26th and Inoue only 27th man...... Clearly injustice.

    Good work though
    I stuck Lamy in there, cos he did enough over enough races to be included. Though maybe Papis should have a place.


    EDIT:

    26.Papis - about as well as could be expected given he jumped in for debut mid-season with little preparation. He remains though, the only driver ever to be outqualified by Taki Inoue.
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  6. #6
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    I'd like to comment. But there's so much to take in, I can't be bothered.

    Except to ask. If you only started watching F1 during 1997/98, how would you know how to put results in context?

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    Yeah that's a good question jr. I guess I don't but it's not particularly meant to be comprehensive or serious. Just an overview to see what ya think.


    And now for 1997 (seems it's become all drivers, not just the top 10 now), and I can't think of a better way to celebrate my 1000th post than to go back to the season where it all started for me.

    1.Michael Schumacher - It's possible that the Ferrari was maybe only the 6th fastest car on average over the season. If you think about it, the Prost on Bridgestones was possibly a little faster on balance, especially in race trim. I believe the Jordan was faster - in hindsight it was considered a race winning car but the drivers were too inexperienced to make use of it. I believe McLaren's resurgence later on helped them average a little ahead of Ferrari. I think the Benetton was a bit quicker, though the drivers were uninspiring. And of course then there's the Williams. Although I think 2nd-6th overall between the cars is close.

    This means that Michael could have done pretty much the same job, or better, driving a Jordan, Prost or McLaren etc. This puts it into perspective what a very Alonso-2012-like job he must have done that year. Especially when you consider that even though Irvine closed the gap from 96, he still had several races absolutely nowhere in the midfield. If this is true, then he should truly have been the hero of 1997 rather than the villain.

    2.Jacques Villeneuve - For only his 2nd season (though having raced top-flight already), it was a great job, though with Damon gone the pressure and expectation seemed to get to him. Flipping well should have won given that car. He was the driver to shatter the Frentzen myth though.

    3.David Coulthard - Given he was less experienced than Hakkinen, this was a very strong season. With a reliable car I'm sure a title challenge could have been on. The great unsporting injustice of Jerez - DC being made to move over to give HIS win to Mika to give Mika title confidence for 1998 (what about DCs 1998?!!!) - was an unfair shame, especially coming from such a proud racer as Ron. But DC was very impressive.

    4.Mika Hakkinen - Slightly lame in the first half of the season tbh. Maybe now his 1995 accident was having some effect? Maybe not, since as Newey's presence was more felt, so Mika picked right up, almost winning Silverstone, and suffering incredible misfortune to also miss out on victories in Austria and most gallingly the Nurburgring, where on his 29th birthday, with a commanding lead, and having gone all those years trying to in his first race, he heartbreakingly retired. Then DC who would have taken the lead retired at the same time. And all this just a few races after Damon in Hungary! Still, he picked up his season to be one of the best out there.

    5.Johnny Herbert - One of the most curious seasons of all time. I can remember when I was getting into F1, Herbert in the Sauber was an almost permament fixture in the top 10 during races, and I thought this was just the way it always was, not knowing any better. For years I have been so curious as to how Johnny put together this sort of season, as it never happened again since. It's a total mystery like Katayama's 94. But iirc Herbert qualified only +1.320sec off Villeneuve on average. Given that M.Schumacher was about 0.42sec off and Irvine 1.24sec, I still don't know how in a theoretically inferior Sauber with a customer Ferrari engine, he could perform so well. It seems that maybe Johnny had a latent talent (hey those 2 words are anagrams of each other) that could only be unlocked at certain times, such as Monza 1994. He was fantastic in races, conserving his tyres to get several 4th places etc ahead of more fancied cars. What would he have done in Melbourne if it weren't for Irvine (again!)?

    6.Giancarlo Fisichella - These were the days when Fisichella was considered to be a future world champion (*sob!*). Small wonder when you check out his 97. Let's see, going in, Ralf was the early signing with Sam Michael as engineer, and probably given all the no.1 treatment etc. He was expected to be the leader with Fisi as a decent no.2 but a bit hot headed etc like Alesi. As it turned out, after a slow start, Fisi had the beating of Ralf in every way. Most points, highest average qualifying, highest grid slot, best result, most points, most podiums, outqualified Ralf 10-7 etc. And that was with a bad knee injury during the opening races which Fisi didn't make a fuss of.

    Hockenheim was the day I became a fan of Fisi. Qualifying 0.022 sec behind experienced Hockenheim specialist Gerhard Berger, the race was between those two for the win, only for Fisi to retire with a puncture just 6 laps from home, while Ralf came a distant 5th. Drivers circuit Spa showed the difference between the Jordan drivers, Fisi qualifying 4th and finishing 2nd (with modern day levels of retirements i.e. none to speak of) while Ralf started well down the field and crashed trying to keep up. Fisi was also ahead at the other drivers circuit Monaco, qualifying 4th there too. Ralf was quicker at Suzuka though.

    Fisi then finished just a few seconds off the win at Monza, qualifying and finishing 4th, before another 4th in Austria, leading Ralf. At the Nurburgring, he started 4th again, but was taken out by Ralf, who was so desperate to beat his team-mate he crashed into him, then also took his brother out costing him the title. Given that Alesi who started well down came 2nd that day, what could Fisi have done? All in all, an unexpectedly superb season.


    7.Ralf Schumacher - That's not to say Ralf didn't have his moments too. Also remember, he was only 21 at the time an Fisi had done 8 races for Minardi. That's why this rivalry reminded me very much of Ricciardo and Vergne at Toro Rosso.
    Ralf started well, qualifying 12th on debut and looking good for 6th in the race. Argentina was his moment to shine, on the podium, but only after taking Fisi out!! And then blaming him afterwards! Oh yes, back then the spirit of Maldonado was alive and well in Schu Jr Still, 3rd in your 3rd race at 21 ain't bad (seems quite Vettel-like). At Imola he started ahead of Fisi and could probably have fought for the podium if not for DNFing. Next opportunity was 3rd on the grid at France, only for a reckless collision while fighting for 5th in the race. He beat Fisi to come 5th at Silverstone but was miles off at Hockenheim. He caused a dangerous crash at Monza with Herbert, then blamed him (good heavens!) He was then fastest in free practice in Japan (iirc?) but no more points.

    So a lot to learn, but he qualified only half a tenth of Fisi on average, with less experience, so had still done enough to impress.


    8.Barrichello - imo underrated cos of 1995. One of the quickest drivers out there, but sadly mostly unnoticed in a Stewart. Started 11th in Stewart's first race before qualifying 5th at Argentina (Rubens seemed to go pretty well there) before a great 3rd (almost pole) in Canada. Not before finishing 2nd in Monaco though. I remember so clearly afterwards, that race which made me an F1 fan, there was memorably a funny looking Scottish man (to my 13yr old self) crying for joy. I didn't know who he was at the time. Also started 5th at Austria but this time, he spun off. Overall a great job and dominated Magnussen Sr.

    9.Olivier Panis - At the time, I remember people going crazy about Panis, watching Monaco 97 I got the impression he was always winning races every season and was one of the top drivers. In hindsight, this was almost all Bridgestone however. I'm not trying to be mean, just that I think it's the truth. He was flying in Spain, and could have won if not for a lapped Irvine blocking him all over, probably still feeling sore over Monaco 96. Given that it may have cost Panis the win, and therefore Schumacher your team-mate the title... Well good going Eddie! What a huge shame about the crash as it will always be one of the unsolved questions of F1, what could Olivier have done? He was 3rd in the WDC at the time.

    Come to think of it, I watched footage of that crash a few years back, and it struck me how relatively mild and minor it was, considering it resulted in 2 broken legs. The same crash in 2014 would be almost nothing in comparison. Just shows how things have come on.

    10.Damon Hill - After some deliberation, I have awarded the ninth spot to Damon. He was a very mixed bag in 97, from the sublime to the ridiculous indeed. Let's get the cr@p stuff out of the way. Feet too big for the car. DNQd in Melbourne. Down the back at Imola too. Outqualified by Pedro Diniz somewhere (Monaco, Spa?), underperformed badly for a world champion early on, wasn't rallying the team.

    With that out of the way, he was only poor while trying to get over the realisation that Tom Walkinshaw had led him down the garden path (I knoooow that feeling), came 6th at Silverstone woohoo! Then that day of days, when having started 3rd at Hungary, took the lead and dominated. Silly me thinking this was par for the course. 1998 would teach me a harsh lesson. Now Bridgestone would have had a big part in this, but where were their other runners that day? Shouldn't Stewarts and Minardis have challenged for points if the tyres were that hawt? Given that Yamaha's expertise was definitely in keyboards rather than engines, and the chassis surely can't have been THAT good, it just leaves one more variable - maybe old Damon really could switch it on when the stars aligned.

    Damon then qualified 4th at Jerez, hundreths off pole. He would have taken it but for yellow flags. Now for the car to have progressed that much from the start of the season, maybe Damon played a big part in that. I mean, can you imagine Arrows getting that good if Verstappen had been retained?
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    AND THE REST


    11.Jean Alesi - I like Jean, but I mean, how do you run out of fuel even though the team have been screaming to come in? Not a great season, though he picked up loads of points and podiums, but no wins again. Wurz outqualifying him twice in 3 races showed Jean's form was a bit rubbish.

    12.Jarno Trulli - Shone like a star at some races, qualifying 6th at France. Kinda lame at others, finishing 30sec behind Nakano in A 6-7 finish in Hungary. Really?


    13.Eddie Irvine - Another mixed bag. 5 podiums, including 3 in a row and almost winning Argentina, then loads of midfield nowhere results, perhaps showing that Ferrari maybe really was as low as 6th fastest car. His driving round the outside of everyone at Suzuka was so cool. 9th to 13th in my rankings are really close and Eddie loses out.


    14.Heinz-Harald Frentzen - Oh boy where to begin? Hardly ever outqualified Villeneuve. Villeneuve! Sucked in general. Finishing out of the points in Brazil and Spain, in a Williams!! Utterly unthinkable. However, he was not happy and this affected him - badly. Patrick Head was his usual cantankerous self. Villeneuve was being all Nico Rosbergy in doing all manner of underhand things behind the scenes for the sole purpose of hindering Frentzen (call me old-fashioned but I'd prefer beating someone on pure performance, it would be a disgrace to me as a racer to do otherwise). Oh, he also got most of the misfortune going. Only 19pts after 11 races... But after that 23pts from 6 (actually that's not that great)

    15.Gerhard Berger - A good start to the season, challenging for the win in Brazil, but then loads of 7ths etc. What going on man? 18th on the grid in Austria? Really? However, pole, win and fastest lap in Germany, plus opportunistically taking 4th off Irvine on the run to the line Senna/Mansell '86 style was great stuff.

    16.Mika Salo - Ok
    17.Jos Verstappen - A bit slower than Mika, but Tyrrell liked him. On for points in Canada.
    18.Diniz - shone for his lowly standing.
    19.Magnussen - Er... Qualified 6th at Austria, but mostly worse than Kevin.
    20.Morbidelli - Absolutely nothing of note for the Happy Bubble reserve driver, save a nasty crash... He was stuffed by Sauber though who concentrated all on Herbert. Hmmm I don't remember Johnny ever complaining abut that, come to think of it...
    21.Katayama - ok, but Trulli go faster.
    22.Marques - Qualified 18th at Nurburgring. Also went better than usual there in 2001 funnily enough.
    22.Nakano - Rubbish at first while reviled by Alain Prost, but when Alain grudgingly accepted him he became less rubbish and bagged 2pts, missing out on a 6th at Silverstone too on the final lap.
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    Just my initial reaction to what I've skimmed through so far.

    - Ukyo Katayama was pretty good in 94. It's a bit unfortunate for him that the records show that Mark Blundell got the better results. Regardless, Ukyo was the better of the two that year. I do remember him being in contention for a podium at Hockenheim and Monza, but it didn't work out for him. I can't remember exactly.

    - With the possible exception of the engineering team of both 1995 Benetton and Williams cars gave me a 12 month course/lecture on the differences between both cars and where the advantage was for Williams, and how that advantage was supposedly 2-3/10ths. There is absolutely no way that anyone is going to tell me the popular notion that the Williams was superior to the Benetton that year. No one who watched the 1995 Spanish GP could come to that conclusion. If it was, then either Hill and Coulthard were tanking. Schumacher may be better than both, but he's not that much better.

    - I don't see how Hamilton's debut year could be seen to be significantly better than Villeneuve's. The biggest differences I recall was the specialist British press weren't so bothered of the newbie having to follow team orders in 96, and that Hamilton hasn't yet done anything as good as Villeneuve's Portuguese GP win.

    - Regardless of whatever the advantage was, I'd still put Hill as the best driver of 1996.

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    Hmmm that is very interesting to consider, especially about the Williams. Thanks for the thoughts JR. RJ.


    Much of my thoughts about Benetton for 1995 are because I remember Ross Brawn saying something a long time ago, like the Benetton 1995 chassis was actually pretty average, but it was the Renault engine + Schumacher that made the difference. Also, I think there was a saying in the mid-90s that Schumacher was "worth a second a lap" or something like that.
    Last edited by rjbetty; 9th June 2014 at 12:37.
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