The new FIA WRC-car concept 2017

[Mirek]

But I'd like to see more aero pieces for more downforce and less drag

Can You tell me how can You increase downforce and decrease drag in the same time?

[Allyc85]

http://www.deviantart.com/art/Alfa-R...ment-549742586

I know it's never going to happen, but that is bloomin' stunning!

[lewalcindor]

Can You tell me how can You increase downforce and decrease drag in the same time?

Use a vacuum, like in the Chaparral 2J.

http://www.sportscars.tv/Newfiles/2J%20Chaparral.html

[Zeakiwi]

We need a Chevrolet Cruze Coupe... with mad photoshop skillz.


Cool should always be a consideration because deep down, everyone is still 10 years old and wants posters on their wall.

There is a spaceframe Cruze in NZ - made as an endurance circuit racer.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Mitch...=page_internal

[Mirek]

Use a vacuum, like in the Chaparral 2J.

Hehe, 1:0 for You

[Lundefaret]

Oddly enough since we agree on so much else, I disagree...
You know i work with steel things for 405 years now, light tube constructions and I live here where rally is a very sad joke and Circle track is KING..
And yeah the costs of CIRCLE track tube structures are amazingly cheap---and many are completely done in China now so the price is unusually low---

And the choices of hubs and uprights and links and brakes and all kinds of parts are crazy cheap..

But whole cars are still expensive....and they are extremely crude things..
But mainly it is the strength of the modern type INTEGRATED cage and shell is more than the sum of the strength of the cage and the shell separately...

The cars are enormously stronger and they are much safer that tube things

Cost: How can a whole tube cars be expensive when all the parts are cheap?

Strength: A rallycar is a "tube ting" already, in that it has almost all its strength from the roll cage. Easily spotted in a crash, when only the roll cage is left. And judging from how they survive the huge crashes, NASCARs are quit strong.

Cost of repair: A rallycar (R2/R3/R5/WRC) is way to expensive to repair after a crash. This is because the roll cage is an integral part of the body, making the repairs very advanced compared to just taking the body off, putting the cage in a jig, and changing what is bent.

Compared to top level racing in Europe, NASCAR-type cars are incredibly cheap, and an extremely good value for money. That is why this type of American circle track racing is a much better business case than all of European motorsport. The return on investment for the sponsors are much greater. Why? The cars are MUCH cheaper. The cars are MUCH cheaper to run. Television broadcasting of the races are on another level. There are a lot more races.

Compare the prices of a new, or slightly used NASCAR-type car to European top level racing: LMP1, WRC, F1, or even WTCC. The European engineer driven motorsport is hugely expensive, and totally reliant on manufacturers to cover the bills. The sponsor money required to run even the lower feeder classes is enormous, and thats why we see so few really talented drivers coming up trough the ranks, even in WRC to challenge Ogier.

In the USA a huge number of drivers and teams get paid to come and race. Tell that to a European rally- or race car driver, and he won't belive You.

If we should build more excitement in the WRC it doesn't help with a car that is a few millimeters wider. A WRC-car should be so "cheap" to build and run that it would be such a good return on investment for the sponsors that it would be unwise to stay away.

Does it need to be a space frame chassis?
- It would be easier if every manufacturer had to start from one specified chassis, with a limited amount of modification.
- But it could also be done by making the R5-cars the WRC starting point, and have more powerful engines.

Should there also be other cost caps? Yes!
- All major components should have a cost cap, and also be made available for sale.
- Schock absorbers, gear boxes, diffs etc.
- Engines should also have a cost cap, and should also be able to buy for private teams.
- If there are discovered any changes between "factory" parts and the parts offered for sale, it should be heavily fined.
- The engine should be of a smarter/cheaper format to reach the performance goal. If You want to have 400hp and 800Nm, there is a lot of cheaper (and better sounding) ways to achieve that, than start from a 1,6 liter turbo engine with a restrictor.

Safety:
- The aerodynamics and damper travel should be limited for safety reasons, with the added benefit of the cars becoming more spectacular to watch.

This way we would have a lot more cars, and the teams would need to get their hans on real talent (not pay drivers), which again would lead to stronger competition, which in turn would lead to a much greater spectacle being a lot more interesting for TV, which then again would result in better sqedualing and more air time and higher payments from the TV-channels for the broadcasting rights. This would turn a negative spiral to a positive spiral. Which we need!

[tommeke_B]

@Lundefaret, great theory! But as long as all decisions are being pushed by the manufacturers, things are not going to change in that direction...

[Lundefaret]

@Lundefaret, great theory! But as long as all decisions are being pushed by the manufacturers, things are not going to change in that direction...

I know.....

[Lundefaret]

From NASCAR: An impressive 130 of all Fortune 500 companies are NASCAR sponsors.

From NASCAR/Margolis: At Hendrick Motorsports, which employs 500 people, sponsors are estimated to cover 65 to 70 percent of all infrastructure costs. The rest is paid for by race winnings and other endorsement deals.

Some NASCAR 2015 stats.
There are 18 official teams.
70 drivers have entered one or more of the 21 races so far.
11 racers have netted a victory.
23 drivers has been Top 5.
45 different drivers have been Top 10.


Lets make a dream WRC scenario:

10 "official" teams.
4 cars pr team. (Total of 40 "official" WRC cars)
2 "main drivers" pr team.
The 2 other cars available for specialist drivers (Tarmac/Gravel/Snow)
10 "private" teams with 1-4 cars pr team. (total of 10-40 "private" WRC cars)

Cost of WRC car: Cost capped to 200.000 Eur.

Safety:
- Strong spaceframe.
- Limited aerodynamics.
- Limited damper travel.
- Sentral seating.
- If needed for safety: RWD.

Engine/performance:
Cost capped engine: 30.000 Eur.
Min 5 rallies pr engine.
500 hp
600 Nm
1000 kg


(Or just use World Rallycross Cars)

[Zeakiwi]

The space frame rallycross lites made in Turkey at still expensive.
https://youtu.be/mjU__B6Oaes (Nascar robot welding tube car).
Maybe the Australian 'answer' of UTVs in rallies for less expensive 'current' vehicles. Certainly engine capacity is similar e.g Brendan Reeves R2 Fiesta ecoboost vs a Polaris RZR turbo