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  1. #51
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    TOYOTA
    Now this was one of the most fascinating prospects for me all season. I still was very fond of Toyota at the time and eagerly wished them climbing up the ladder of success step by tiny step. After just a paltry 9pts (3 in old money) for the whole of 2004, I was much more excited by most people at the prospect of both Ralf Schumacher and Jarno Trulli joining. Both were top drivers who were thereabouts, but tantalisingly, they were FAR superior to the 2004 line-up of past-it-Panis and it-didn't-matter-to-da Matta, on another planet actually. So I hugely anticipated a big step in performance from just drivers alone.

    Then consider Mike Gascoyne was by now established in the team and it was looking very interesting indeed. I predicted Toyota would be able to hang on to the coat tails of the 5 teams ahead to, though trailing a bit, still be close enough to be considered the 6th team in a new "big 6". Almost all the points would be dished out between these 6 teams and their drivers. I was excited to see the team mixing it up in the top 6 on the grid on occasion.

    However, I was alarmed at what the new tyre regulation would mean for Toyota. Their tyre wear and race pace was shocking in 2004, and now with just 1 tyre, I feared the Toyota's would be dead ducks, rendered completely impotent in races, putting paid to any hopes of the odd top 5 result...


    JORDAN - TOYOTA
    In the back end of 2004, I had several drivers in a Jordan, from Anthony Davidson and David Coulthard (at the same time!) to I don't even know who else. I was little disappointed in their final uninspiring driver line up of TWO rookies. That was any realistic hope I had for Jordan shot there and then, though I was always really fond of Monteiro for some reason, since 2000 in French F3 (I didn't follow the series but was aware of him), while I'd always liked Karthikeyan from his wild driving in British F3 in 1999, dominating at driver's track Brands Hatch, and always shining in the wet.

    So I had Jordan pretty much the same as 2004, not much hope for anything other than a very rare fortunate points finish or 2.


    MINARDI - COSWORTH
    Patrick Freisacher was another driver I liked from German F3 (same situation as Monteiro, not following the series but aware of him), so I was surprised and glad to see him get a chance. Though I always REALLY wanted to see David Saelens get a chance! I was a really huge fan of his, and always hoped he might get a break (what on earth happened to him anyway?). Christian Albers (who SO nearly got in ahead of Verstappen for 2003) also joined, though I was welcoming this time, even though I found him absurdly overrated having been annihilated by Webber in F3000.

    Happily, Minardi announced a new chassis for the first time in 3 seasons. This was news to me, as I never knew they were simply using an old one year-on-year, or that anyone seriously did that! But by now, I was starting to have been round the block a bit, and knew the new car wouldn't transform Minardi to challenging the midfield.
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  2. #52
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    EXPECTED 2005 QUALIFYING AVERAGE
    1.M.Schumacher
    2.Fisichella +0.20
    3.Alonso +0.21
    4.Raikkonen +0.25
    5.Montoya +0.28
    6.Button +0.30
    7.Barrichello +0.32
    8.Webber +0.42
    9.Heidfeld +0.45
    10.Sato +0.58
    11.Trulli +0.84
    12.R.Schumacher +0.92
    13.Villeneuve +1.4
    14.Coulthard +1.4
    15.Massa +1.5
    16.Klien +1.6
    17.Karthikeyan +2.7
    18.Monteiro +2.8
    19.Albers
    20.Freisacher



    MY PRE-2005 GRAND PRIX 2 SEASON

    Ok, is it kinda weird that I can remember many of the results from my 2005 season on Grand Prix 2? It was fascinating and I loved it! It's only recently my direct memories of the races and results have started to fade, but I still remember quite a bit.

    Back then I only had the original tracks, not the 2005 ones...


    ROUND 1: BRAZIL
    Grid:
    1.Montoya
    2.Webber + 0.0
    3.Barrichello +0.083
    4.Alonso +0.09 (look how close the top 4 were )
    5.Trulli +0.4
    6.Button +0.5
    7.Raikkonen +0.5
    8.M.Schumacher +0.5
    9.Fisichella +0.6
    10.R.Schumacher +0.6
    11.Heidfeld +1.1
    12.Coulthard +1.2
    13.Sato +1.2
    14.Massa +1.2
    15.Klien +1.5
    16.Karthikeyan +2.5
    17.Villeneuve +2.7
    18.Monteiro
    19.Freisacher
    20.Albers

    Result:
    1.Alonso
    2.Webber
    3.Barrichello
    DNF.Fisichella



    ROUND 2: PACIFIC
    Grid:
    1.Raikkonen
    2.Montoya +0.197
    3.Sato +0.3
    4.Heidfeld +0.3
    5.Button +0.4
    6.Alonso +0.6
    7.M.Schumacher +0.6
    8.Fisichella +0.6
    9.Villeneuve +0.9
    10.Webber +1.1
    11.R.Schumacher
    12.Barrichello
    13.Klien
    14.Trulli
    15.Coulthard
    16.Massa

    Result:
    1.Heidfeld
    2.Sato
    3.Webber

    The McLaren's collided at the first corner and were out! Montoya's fault I think.

    Darn, so frustrated that it's only recently I stopped being able to remember everything!



    Round 3:IMOLA
    Grid:
    1.M.Schumacher
    2.Trulli
    3.Heidfeld
    4.R.Schumacher
    5.Webber
    6.Barrichello
    7.Fisichella
    8.Button
    9.Alonso
    10.Sato
    11.Raikkonen
    12.Montoya

    WINNER: M.Schumacher


    4.MONACO
    Grid:
    1.M.Schumacher
    2.Fisichella
    3.Montoya
    4.Trulli
    5.Alonso Ohhh I'm really struggling to remember boo hoo!


    SPAIN:
    McLarens qualified and finished 1-2 here! I remember that.



    FINAL POINTS (APPROX):
    1.M.Schumacher
    2.Alonso 62 pts
    3.Button 60pts
    4.Fisichella 58pts
    5.Barrichello 55pts
    6.Webber 40s pts
    7.Raikkonen 2 wins 4
    8.Heidfeld - high 30s pts
    9.Montoya 2 wins, about 35-40pts (bad reliability for McLarens
    10.R.Schumacher 26pts (podium in Canada)
    11.Sato
    12.Trulli 20+pts
    13.Coulthard 6pts
    14.Villeneuve 5pts
    15.Massa 4pts
    16.Klien 1pt
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  3. #53
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    Looking back, the 2005 season tells me, more than most others, that F1/top level of motorsport is really an Arms race, whether anyone likes it or not. The tighter the set of regs, the less scope there is to develop and advantage, more it narrows the importance the parts of the car that are less regulated, and the more it exaggerates the advantage of the leading car.

    For five years, Ferrari dominated F1. The rules were so tight, that teams couldn't develop car to regain performance. Williams still couldn't get the better of Ferrari, despite a power advantage with the BMW. This is wrongly used by Schumacher fans to boost his reputation by saying he won with an inferior car. Because there was one part of the car that was not heavily regulated, that has the biggest impact of performance. Tyres.

    After 5 years of being the leading F1 team. Where the rules being so tight, meant that it's rivals could make little inroad into any strength they had with their car. Ferrari went from the most dominant season in F1, 15/18 wins, 13 to Schumacher, to a single, charity win in 05.

    It's not like Ferrari forgot how to build a car, or Schumacher forgetting how to drive. There is only one explanation for it. Michelin finally produced a superior tyre. Due to Bridgestone favouring Ferrari and alienating others, Ferrari/Schumacher went from all that emphatic success, to being gang tackled by the other teams. The standings flattered them. They were not a factor at all during the season.
    Last edited by journeyman racer; 30th May 2014 at 14:31.

  4. #54
    Senior Member Tazio's Avatar
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    Great post dawg!
    2005 really was an almost complete role reversal, although Michelin had produced tires that were suited for the Renault all through the early mid 2000's, and in 2005 had a very special relationship. I remember Kimi was very fast with Michelins that season, but still basically got whupped by Alonso in a car that was ridiculously good in fast turns (mass damper), plus it fit Fred's style. McLarens out upgraded Renault but not before they were punished by "le blues" in the early season, which happens in F1 rather frequently!
    May the forza be with you

  5. #55
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    What?

  6. #56
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    I sometimes feel Alonso's 2005 Japanese GP is somewhat overlooked amidst the events of that day.

    Consider he was armed with a Renault compared to Kimi's McLaren. Truthfully I don't know how the two cars compared that day, whether Renault had caught up in pace or anything?

    But Alonso started in 16th, only 1 place ahead of Kimi, catapulted past M.Schumacher at 130R on the outside with high centrifugal force, just inches apart, the slightest of touches would send Fernando into the wall at massive force and speed.

    Then he overtook Christian Klien slightly wrongly, had to slow to give the place back, but used his momentum to immediately overtake, then had to give the place back again, and overtake Klien without being able to do it immediately after letting him through (like Hamilton Spa 2008 - makes that DSQ look even more dodgy). Alonso also had to take to the grass to pass Webber, who defended robustly coming to turn 1. I think he finished only 7sec off the win iirc??

    If the Renault was still slower than the McLaren, then this would be a truly gargantuan drive.

    Sadly, Fisi seemed to have some rather deep issues with succeeding and winning, as this is the only explanation for his throwing of the win. I can actually understand this, but even if he couldn't topple Alonso over a season, I wish he had still given his all to do the best he could do anyway.




    2006
    I didn't really go into massive detail in predictions/expectations from now on, but I still hadn't really learned my lessons and had the field far too close. Behind the top 5-6 teams, I pretty much got it right, but that's not much surprise.


    1.RENAULT
    It seemed anyone of maybe even 5-6 drivers could win the title and it seemed very open to me and hard to pick a winner, but I guess if anyone was to be chosen for champ, it would be Alonso. As for Fisi, even now I felt 2005 wasn't representative as too many things factored against him. I still believed in him and felt the truth was, he was just a smidgen of Alonso in 2005.

    It's amazing how everyone defends their favourite drivers who struggle, suggesting everything in the book - the car doesn't suit them, this, that and the other. Fair enough, but I don't remember ANYONE allowing these things to Fisichella, not even all his retirements causing him to qualify early next race while Alonso was almost always one of the last 2 out on track. Taking this into account, plus the fact that Fisi often ran a lap or 2 more fuel, in truth he was pretty much matching Alonso's pace at most tracks. But no, the 0.7sec gap or whatever it was, that was considered the truth!

    Anyway, 2006 was a new start, though even in late 2004, I never had any illusions that Alonso would be ahead of Fisi by 2006 which was fine, cos I considered Alonso mega. But what I was hoping for was for Fisi to run him close most of the time and at least do as well as he can do. Strangely, after Alonso announced his defection to McLaren, Flav suddenly changed his tone towards Fisi and was much more for him and warmer to him. From then on, Fisi almost never suffered the many problems that ruined his 2005 - which ensured Alonso would be established ahead.

    P.S. For those of you who think Webber had it bad in 2013, at least Vettel retired from a race. Alonso had absolutely no hint of any mechanical failure in any race of 2005, at all. It was even worse than Schumacher/Barrichello in 2002 as it wasn't all the time for Rubens. I still have never known things be so one-sided with problems/reliability differences between team-mates in the history of F1, that I'm aware of.

    So anyway, for Fisi, I didn't expect the title no, or to beat Alonso, but for him to do a good job, get stuck in, and if things go his way as much as they didn't in 2005, who knows. My hope was for top 4 in the WDC.


    2.MCLAREN
    McLaren no longer looked as fast in qualifying, but interestingly looked a little faster than Renault in races, though more unreliable, though not as much as 2005. With Montoya also expected to run his team-mate close after his own 2005 troubles, it brought a lot of anticipation to the pot. Kimi still ahead though.

    3.FERRARI
    Once again, I based things too much on the previous season, though I had Michael up there at the top, it was hanging on by the coat-tails somewhat, being in the mix for the title, but needing much to go their way. I didn't expect much from Massa tbh, I thought he'd acquit himself well, but an extremely competitive top end of the field would see him struggle to finish higher than 7th in the WDC, and not able to help that much in the constructors.

    4.HONDA
    Now this was an interesting one. Testing had Honda RIGHT up there, just a little off the top. Perhaps a title challenge was a little too much, but I was certainly expecting 2004 levels of performance, being right up there, but with Button being stronger now, having shown possible race-winning pace in Turkey 2005, finishing a close 5th having started from the back. One of the most interesting things was how Barrichello would do. I expected him to basically equal Button, but more likely Jenson edging ahead than vice versa.

    5.TOYOTA
    Toyota were talked up as possible outsiders for the title early on, following their massively improved 2005. I bought into the hype as Trulli was flying high. I was really wondering if he could challenge and maybe even come 2nd!! But then I thought Ralf would be closer as he's very good at working to try and undermine his team-mate to make himself look better (a la Irvine and Montoya) even if the team suffers. One of my biggest points of anticipation was where Toyota would fit in, though later on in testing, things went very quiet regarding their prospects.

    6.WILLIAMS-COSWORTH
    Armed with the most powerful, punchy little engine on the grid, it looked interesting, though there was no doubt Williams were falling back. Even so, I felt if they could hit the ground running, they could punch above their weight and mix it up there, especially early on. Webber was impressing me with his qualifying speed, while there was an exciting fresh rookie, 20yr old Nico Rosberg, who was a great change after all those years of Ralf. I expected Rosberg to be around 0.4sec off Webber, actually a high expectation for a rookie, but he may suffer from the ultra-competitive 5 teams ahead.

    7.RED BULL-FERRARI
    I was very disappointed when the Ferrari engine deal was announced and felt Red Bull would struggle to replicate quite the performance of 2005 with the underrated Cosworth. This was before I saw in Autosport someone said "Think about it; when has Ferrari (customer) power really pushed anyone up the grid?" I felt this was spot on. Still the team could do a punchy little job and DC could continue to shine. Also, Klien would now be stronger after another year, but 34pts would be too tall an order this time.


    8.BMW-SAUBER
    I didn't know what to expect in year one of this promising partnership. I loved the livery though missed the Red Bull livery of before, and somewhat mourned the aqua/green of PETRONAS (which I loved!) which was replaced by plain blue, but it still looked good, and I was so so happy they kept the Sauber name! I kinda read they seemed very slow in qualifying but race pace was better. I was concerned they might even average 2sec off the pace and almost never get close to the top 10 in quals. Autosport announced highly promising Heikki Kovalainen was signed as Heidfeld's team-mate, though I admit I was still quite fond of Jacques for some reason. The Kovalainen deal wasn't able to come off after all, and Dan Wheldon also missed out as Villeneuve's contract had to be honoured. tbh I know Jacques wasn't popular, but I was pleased as I felt he could do better having taken a year to settle back in. It was a strong line-up I thought.

    9.SQUADRA TORO ROSSO (as they were initially called)
    I rated Vitantonio Liuzzi highly as everyone was raving about him at the time, and saw the line-up of him and Speed as very strong. I was very happy to see an American driver in F1, and to see "Minardi" able to leap up to the midfield.

    10.MIDLAND-TOYOTA
    I was actually very encouraged to see the livery which I liked, Albers join an improved Monteiro to form a stronger line-up than 2005. The new car looked pretty good actually and the team looked set to make up ground, even if only reaching 2004 levels of performance, or slightly better.

    11.SUPER AGURI-HONDA
    I was really happy to see a new team joining, after the sparse grids of recent years having lost Prost and Arrows. I loved their initial livery, even if plain, before they changed it to feature more red - a step backwards for me as it then looked like a Toyota. Much fervour was reserved for the 2002 Arrows chassis they ran early on! Wooohooo! I was so excited as I recognised the distinctive front of that car, and it was most intriguing to see that car in white with black and red.

    Wasn't expecting much, but thought they'd be respectable for where they were, and not a joke of a poorly run team.

    AVERAGE QUALIFYING 2006 EXPECTATION - QUAL ONLY
    1.Alonso
    2.Fisichella +0.06
    3.Button +0.11
    4.Barrichello +0.18
    5.Raikkonen +0.20
    6.Trulli +0.22
    7.M.Schumacher +0.24
    8.Montoya +0.24
    9.R.Schumacher +0.26
    10.Massa +0.64
    11.Webber +0.75
    12.Rosberg +1.20
    13.Coulthard +1.40
    14.Klien +1.53
    15.Villeneuve +1.54
    16.Heidfeld +1.60
    17.Liuzzi +2.79
    18.Speed +2.96
    19.Albers +3.02
    20.Monteiro +3.18
    21.Sato +4.79
    22.Ide +5.81

    RACE PACE
    1.Raikkonen
    2.M.Schumacher +0.04
    3.Montoya +0.06
    4.Alonso +0.10
    5.Fisichella +0.23
    6.Button +0.26
    7.Barrichello +0.36
    8.R.Schumacher +0.40
    9.Trulli +0.44
    10.Massa +0.44

    Others pretty much the same as qual.
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  7. #57
    Senior Member journeyman racer's Avatar
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    I remember reading an article/interview. Alonso was saying that while McLaren did make up ground, relative to the Renault. Because they had such a big lead by the time McLaren did get up to speed, they went with ultra conservative tactics, knowing that Raikkonen/McLaren would only end up gaining two points. Then, when the title was over, they went on full attack at China, and smashed the rest.

  8. #58
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    Interesting to see so small gaps, rjbetty.

    I think 2004-2005 was an all-time optimism period for me in terms of gaps. We had lots of factory teams, Ferrari's advantage seemed to have peaked and the modern era of tight competition seemed to have arrived.

    I remember watching early 2005. I was of course surprised at the pecking order, but then again my belief in the closeness of competition seemed vindicated. What was there?
    Renault right at the sharp end;
    Toyota surprisingly fast, but finally delivering on the promise;
    Red Bull surprisingly fast, but mixing it with the strong teams;
    Williams pretty decent;
    McLaren, Ferrari and BAR were underperforming, but you knew they were strong teams and would bounce back.

    So there seemed to be as many as 7 very competitive teams, who were all going to compete right at the top. It felt awesome! Sadly wasn't meant to remain like that...

  9. #59
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    2006

    In general

    In retrospect it has probably been one of my best predictions of all times. I did predict M.Schumacher and Alonso to fight for the championship, though M.Schumacher was favourite to come out on top.
    I had seen lots of fluctuations from one season to another, from 2002 to 2003 to 2004 to 2005. After the abolishment of the 2005 single-tyre rule I thought 2006 would again be closer to the 2004 form standards with Ferrari again at the top and Honda, the former BAR, also closer to their 2004 form. With McLaren struggling.

    Ferrari – Michael Schumacher won the prediction championship though I don’t remember if they won WCC too, because I predicted Fisichella to beat Massa in the second driver battles. I thought Ferrari’s poor 2005 was down to tyres.

    After having underestimated Renault for several years, I concluded that there is no reason why they shouldn’t be at the sharp end this time again. They were convincing and getting stronger each year. Even despite Alonso announcing his departure to McLaren. I did ponder though whether Fisichella can have a better season and end up 3rd in drivers championship as he had had an appalling reliability in 2005 and thought that should finally improve.

    Honda with the Button-Barrichello line-up to be competitive and perhaps end up third in the constructors. Maybe not quite as strong as they were in 2004, but expected both drivers to collect quite a few podiums and lots of points.

    In the middle of 2005 I was overwhelmed by the progress of Toyota and pondered whether they could challenge for titles already in 2006. However, in late 2005 I concluded such expectation would be somewhat overoptimistic, and suspected they could even drop to 5th in the constructors after the rise of Honda again. But nevertheless thought they can give a battle to Honda and McLaren.

    McLaren to disappoint, but not as much as in 2004. I knew in 2006 we would have new V8 engines and I thought Mercedes would get it wrong as the smoking Merc engines had been a customary sight in some of the past seasons. Also expected a fair amount of reliability issues and a struggle against Hondas and Toyotas. I felt McLaren had peaked in 2005 with the fastest car, with which they also couldn’t properly capitalize due to reliability issues.

    Then behind them expected a close fight between three teams for sixth position.

    I expected the new BMW Sauber to be slightly better than former Sauber in its first season as a factory team and particularly in the second half of the season collect lots of 7th and 8th places. In the end it was close (Heidfeld did get lots of minor points), but they probably collected some more points than I anticipated.

    There was some hype around Red Bull after a good 2005 and a switch to Ferrari engines. I thought 2006 would be quite similar to their 2005 form. In the end they were slightly worse.

    Expected Williams to drop backwards after losing factory status and getting customer engines. And battle it out with BMW and RBR for 6th. In the end Williams had awful reliability, which saw them collecting less points than I anticipated though their speed was stunning at times.

    Toro Rosso to become 9th best buying out Minardi and getting old Red Bull chassis.

    Midland – the former Jordan – to drop behind STR, the former Minardi.

    Super Aguri to be hopeless with old Arrows chassis…

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