Situation in Ukraine

[Starter]

This is a nice picture

It's not what you think it is. Obama would say he is receiving a "trust me, all's OK" sign.

[henners88]

Indeed. I think talking about it and negotiating hard is better than the US complicating things and using it as a platform for flexing their own muscles. The outcome of this could be catastrophic for everybody, especially the countries in Europe who neighbour and could be dragged into a war. I really hope we don't get too involved.

I agree. We should have minded our own business in 1941 too.

What a stupid thing to say.
We are ever grateful for your help just like I would hope you are grateful for ours. This has nothing to do with 73 years ago though and I'm sure people are sick of the we won the war crap by now. It's just that sort of mentality that backs up shallow stereotypes and I don't want that for my American friends that I respect immensely.

[Rollo]

I agree. We should have minded our own business in 1941 too.

What a stupid thing to say.
We are ever grateful for your help just like I would hope you are grateful for ours. This has nothing to do with 73 years ago though and I'm sure people are sick of the we won the war crap by now. It's just that sort of mentality that backs up shallow stereotypes and I don't want that for my American friends that I respect immensely.

I don't know if it is that stupid. America did pretty well for itself by staying out of WW2 as long as it did; just as it did staying out of WW1 as long as it did.
Going to war it perhaps the ultimate demonstration of the broken window fallacy. Sure you increase production and it does act as a major stimulus to an economy but the opportunity cost of war is also massive.
In fact, it might have made sense for Britain to avoid WW1 for precisely the same reason.

I'm pretty sure that most nations in this current crisis don't want to go to war either. The problem is though that as it stands, Russia is demanding the surrender of Ukraine forces in Crimea. That implies that Russia already has gone to war even without a single shot being fired.

[Starter]

Indeed. I think talking about it and negotiating hard is better than the US complicating things and using it as a platform for flexing their own muscles. The outcome of this could be catastrophic for everybody, especially the countries in Europe who neighbour and could be dragged into a war. I really hope we don't get too involved.

I agree. We should have minded our own business in 1941 too.

What a stupid thing to say.
We are ever grateful for your help just like I would hope you are grateful for ours. This has nothing to do with 73 years ago though and I'm sure people are sick of the we won the war crap by now. It's just that sort of mentality that backs up shallow stereotypes and I don't want that for my American friends that I respect immensely.

Not a stupid thing to say at all. Just a way to point out that sometimes you have to step up and do the right thing. The US did the correct thing in getting involved in WWII and no regrets here. History might have been different though if England and France had drawn a line in the sand a bit earlier. Allowing Hitler his early successes was a major error; one that all should reflect on when dealing with situations like the current one.

[Roamy]

I have no idea what all the hoopla is about. This is a EURO deal and Obama bless his heart is not going to raise a hand. You guys are sucking on the gas pipe so you will do nothing. So the Ukraine returns to russia. Maybe that is a good deal. I don't much care for Obama but he is doing very well so far on this deal. Fcuking John McCain's head may blow off over this deal ha ha. You guys have to figure out where to draw the line not us. We will help you screw over the ruble if you want to but I doubt that because you have no gas without Putin. So just give it up and turn on the heater. I will take one of the women if that will help

[donKey jote]

So the Ukraine returns to russia. Maybe that is a good deal.

I guess it may be, at least for about the third of it's "Russian" population, who are more afraid of the Swoboda than of Putin...

[henners88]

I agree. We should have minded our own business in 1941 too.

What a stupid thing to say.
We are ever grateful for your help just like I would hope you are grateful for ours. This has nothing to do with 73 years ago though and I'm sure people are sick of the we won the war crap by now. It's just that sort of mentality that backs up shallow stereotypes and I don't want that for my American friends that I respect immensely.

Not a stupid thing to say at all. Just a way to point out that sometimes you have to step up and do the right thing. The US did the correct thing in getting involved in WWII and no regrets here. History might have been different though if England and France had drawn a line in the sand a bit earlier. Allowing Hitler his early successes was a major error; one that all should reflect on when dealing with situations like the current one.

A lot has changed in 73 years though. WW2 was a situation where we couldn't have won it without American help and you couldn't have won it without us, but that is the thing, it was won. That is very different to modern history to which I think demonstrates the shortfalls of jumping in. There is a lot of debate about whether Vietnam was in fact a success, however both the recent conflicts (Iraq, Afghanistan) have most people believing it was a complete waste of time and money. I can't imagine what the families of lost troops feel. We achieved very little in the grand scheme.

Anyway back on topic, I don't feel Russia want a war any more than we do. We seem to have this perception that Russians are war mongers, when in reality they are totally the opposite. I just hope a peaceful resolution can be found in this latest flashpoint.

[Mintexmemory]

So the Ukraine returns to russia. Maybe that is a good deal.

I guess it may be, at least for about the third of it's "Russian" population, who are more afraid of the Swoboda than of Putin...

I got rolling eyes from a rabid right winger when I suggested that the current Ukraine situation had no side with which the EU should ally.
Your point about the Swoboda is spot on, viz the first line of the Wiki entry on the organisation. 'The party was founded in 1991 as the Social-National Party of Ukraine' .
Whichever way you place 'national' and 'social' in a phrase it still equals the same thing! As Dr Johnson said 'there is no determining the precedence between a louse and a flea.
Having a fascist-run state on your doorstep is still a pretty emotive issue for Russians.

[Mark]

You think government ministers would have learned by now that you don't walk into No.10 with uncovered documents as the press outside *will* be able to read them*. Anyway it turns out that the UK position is that we aren't prepared to do anything, even sanctions.

*It's also a sure fire way to deliberately leak information without making any official statement.

[Rollo]

I have no idea what all the hoopla is about. This is a EURO deal and Obama bless his heart is not going to raise a hand. You guys are sucking on the gas pipe so you will do nothing.

As weird as this sounds:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/modest-pr ... 25357.html
Verleger argues that the millions of barrels of oil in SPR are far beyond any needed reserve, given the rapid increase in U.S. production. And selling the oil at around $100 a barrel would add about $10 billion to U.S. revenues in fiscal year 2015.

The Russians, of course, could counter with higher prices for natural gas shipped to Western Europe or by threatening to cut off natural gas shipments altogether. Western Europe's dependence on Russian natural gas supplies -- most of which flow through pipelines in Ukraine -- has visibly muted the eurozone's response to Russia's military move into the Crimea. But cutting back on or cutting off natural gas supplies to Europe only makes Russia's revenue problems worse.
Without energy revenues, the country's finances would be in a shambles. The ruble has already touched a five-year low against the dollar, making Russia's financial difficulties that much worse.

At the rate of around 200 million barrels a year, the United States could continue to pump crude into global markets for more than three years. The Russian economy could not stand the pain, which may bring it to the bargaining table, or it may cause Putin to behave like a cornered wolf. Flooding the crude market is not risk-free, but it probably deserves a thorough examination and public debate.
- via Yahoo Finance, 4th Mar 2013

Briliant!

Flood the market with cheap oil and gas - Russia finds that the money it doesn't get from oil and gas reserves cripples its economy - America wins by drawing down some of its debt or at very least, helping the budget deficit - cheaper pump prices.

This is the ultimate four-way play. Not even Eric Bruntlett of the Phillies could pull off that one.