Situation in Ukraine

[steveaki13]

What has happened?

If you don't know then I cant help you.

[BleAivano]

So instead of Russia packing up all of its military equipment after gaining Crimea, it still sits just over the border from Ukraine in waiting.

Now East Ukraine is being overtaken by more Pro Russian forces. I bet it will just happen that Russia try and liberate the east of Ukraine.

Only because they are Russian people who want to be part of the home country again of course.

They are saying on the News that Russia has said it has no plans to get involved. Not really much chance anyone will believe them after whats happened.

Russia are looking for more land by the looks of it.

yeah and the "pro Russians" in Eastern Ukraine aren't even living there but it is shipped in fro Russia by Putin.
From hat I understand the majority of the people in Eastern Ukraine still want to be with Ukraine.

[steveaki13]

yeah and the "pro Russians" in Eastern Ukraine aren't even living there but it is shipped in fro Russia by Putin.
From hat I understand the majority of the people in Eastern Ukraine still want to be with Ukraine.

I cant speak from that angle as I don't know the facts, but I bet Russia will not worry about that fact.

I am sure they will see it as an opportunity for a bit of conquest

[Starter]

I'll put up a couple of pints that say Russian forces will be in eastern Ukraine by the end of the month.

[Spafranco]

I'll put up a couple of pints that say Russian forces will be in eastern Ukraine by the end of the month.

Seems from what the AP is saying is that this whole charade is organized and was done so well in advance of what we are seeing now.
Crimea was the excuse to actually invade.

[zako85]

yeah and the "pro Russians" in Eastern Ukraine aren't even living there but it is shipped in fro Russia by Putin.
From hat I understand the majority of the people in Eastern Ukraine still want to be with Ukraine.

It is almost certain that the rioters in the eastern Ukraine are being organized and funded by some kind of powerful force, Russia probably. The Russian state is probably using its propaganda machine and agents to skillfully create an anti-west Ukrainian hysteria in the eastern provinces. However, I would stop short of saying that those protesters are Russian citizens. On Russian news, the journalists a few times asked people in the crowd where they're from, and they showed Ukrainian passports. A lot of them said they were pissed off to be accused to be from abroad.

It's hard to see where is the truth. It could be that people in the crowd were given fake passports, though I doubt this theory right now. In east Ukraine, there are plenty of genuinely pro-Russian people, they may be the majority or large minority, and they have enough reasons to be pissed off because their president was ousted from power a few weeks ago by a bunch of unlawful protesters in Kiev, many of whom happened to be well-prepared, well-trained, and organized rioters with links to Ukraine's "Right Sector" organization as well as sponsors from abroad.

[zako85]

Now East Ukraine is being overtaken by more Pro Russian forces. I bet it will just happen that Russia try and liberate the east of Ukraine.

I suspect the Russia's plan is to force the government in Kiev to reform the constitution to change Ukraine's political organization into a federation. The troops at the border are probably to intimidate the government in Kiev, to prevent a violent crackdown on the protesters in the East, and to force Kiev to accept the idea of federalization. The Russian politicians are openly saying that they want Ukraine to become a federal state. I can see where this is going. Ukraine organized as a federation will forever remain weak and susceptible to Russian influence. This will also set the stage for the further partition of Ukraine in case of future upheavals.

This of course, is really terrible. In my opinion, the politicians in Kiev should get their act together instead of engaging in fist-fights right on the podium in their parliament. They should send a strong message that they wish to transfer more power into the regions, but without accepting the federalization. People in Ukraine's provinces need to be able to elect their leaders. I think this alone could defuse a lot of tensions.

[gadjo_dilo]

It is almost certain that the rioters in the eastern Ukraine are being organized and funded by some kind of powerful force, Russia probably. The Russian state is probably using its propaganda machine and agents to skillfully create an anti-west Ukrainian hysteria in the eastern provinces. However, I would stop short of saying that those protesters are Russian citizens. On Russian news, the journalists a few times asked people in the crowd where they're from, and they showed Ukrainian passports. A lot of them said they were pissed off to be accused to be from abroad.

It's hard to see where is the truth. It could be that people in the crowd were given fake passports, though I doubt this theory right now. In east Ukraine, there are plenty of genuinely pro-Russian people, they may be the majority or large minority, and they have enough reasons to be pissed off because their president was ousted from power a few weeks ago by a bunch of unlawful protesters in Kiev, many of whom happened to be well-prepared, well-trained, and organized rioters with links to Ukraine's "Right Sector" organization as well as sponsors from abroad.

Masses are easy to be manipulated. It's enough to infiltrate a few stirrers in the crowd. I lived such experiences in 1990 when the country was divided into two camps. Living in the central area I had to attend ( involuntarly of course ) a lot of meetings and riots and was amazed by how people could act. Before that I was sure such things can't happen in my city and to my people.

[Starter]

Masses are easy to be manipulated. It's enough to infiltrate a few stirrers in the crowd. I lived such experiences in 1990 when the country was divided into two camps. Living in the central area I had to attend ( involuntarly of course ) a lot of meetings and riots and was amazed by how people could act. Before that I was sure such things can't happen in my city and to my people.

Gadjo, if I were living in one of the former USSR client states, I would be very concerned. Should Putin take over eastern Ukraine (or all of it) there will be no real opposition from the West. He has large ambitions. Read your history books folks, those who ignore the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it.

[Starter]

It is almost certain that the rioters in the eastern Ukraine are being organized and funded by some kind of powerful force, Russia probably. The Russian state is probably using its propaganda machine and agents to skillfully create an anti-west Ukrainian hysteria in the eastern provinces. However, I would stop short of saying that those protesters are Russian citizens. On Russian news, the journalists a few times asked people in the crowd where they're from, and they showed Ukrainian passports. A lot of them said they were pissed off to be accused to be from abroad.

It's hard to see where is the truth. It could be that people in the crowd were given fake passports, though I doubt this theory right now. In east Ukraine, there are plenty of genuinely pro-Russian people, they may be the majority or large minority, and they have enough reasons to be pissed off because their president was ousted from power a few weeks ago by a bunch of unlawful protesters in Kiev, many of whom happened to be well-prepared, well-trained, and organized rioters with links to Ukraine's "Right Sector" organization as well as sponsors from abroad.

There is almost never a 100% "black & white" situation. I'm sure many in Ukraine had had enough of the corrupt government. Enough to essentially dissolve the country though? Doubtful, but then I don't live there. It's also doubtful that this was orchestrated from within Ukraine and that's where the problem lies.