F1 historic Bits 'n' Piece's

[anfield5]

Adn He was born in Upton-on Seven (at the head of the Bristol Channel) near Worchester and that is quite a way North of Exeter.

[Don Capps]

What about the Indy 500 being in the championship. It is always said by less informed people I guess (like me) that it was to make it feel completely global, but I mean was that the case? From reading up so far on 1950 and 51. There were no links to F1 I could see.

The Contest Board of the American Automobile Association adopted the International Formula (AKA Formula 1) beginning with the 1948 season, with the proviso that the 3-liter supercharged engines be retained until there was a sufficient supply of 1.5-liter supercharged engines were available on a year-to-year basis; thanks to some not so subtle (bruising) American racing politics this, of course, never happened. Given that most of the cars participating in the National Championship series, to include the American round in the world championship -- the International 500 Mile Sweepstakes, were using unsupercharged engines of 4.5-liters, the same as in the regulations for the International Formula/Formula 1, by the way. The only two rounds of the 1952 and 1953 world championship run using cars conforming to Formula 1 were the two events at Indianapolis. So, from 1948 until the 1953 event, the International 500 Mile Sweepstakes events was, for all intents and purposes, a Formula 1 event.

Thanks to the usually toxic combination of American and CSI racing politics, from 1954 until 1960, the International 500 Mile Sweepstakes event in the world championship was run to its own formula, which was perfectly acceptable under the world championship regulations of the time, the requirement that the world championship rounds having to be run to Formula 1 not taking effect until the 1961 season.

In addition, it should be noted that the AAA Contest Board adopted the CSI International Formula for its National Championship events beginning with the 1938 International 500 Mile Sweepstakes race. Indeed, that is how the sliding weight/displacement formula for the formula was re-discovered, from an entry form for an American championship event.

So, it might be suggested that there are some links should one take the time to look.

[D-Type]

I have to disagree with you on this one, Don. Once the AAA decided to allow the 3 litre supercharged cars to compete, the '500' cannot be considered a Formula 1 race even if the majority of the entries conformed to the 4½ litre unsupercharged limit.

By the way, did the AAA apply the minimum weight vs capacity scale post war?

[Don Capps]

I have to disagree with you on this one, Don. Once the AAA decided to allow the 3 litre supercharged cars to compete, the '500' cannot be considered a Formula 1 race even if the majority of the entries conformed to the 4½ litre unsupercharged limit.

By the way, did the AAA apply the minimum weight vs capacity scale post war?

From what I have found, it is very doubtful that there was much hand-wringing regarding the issue at the time, the important point being that the USA (the AAA Contest Board) was attempting to stay aligned with the CSI and its new International Formula. Keep in mind that with the rare exception of an interloper from time to time, US national championship events from 1948 until 1953 were all run as Formula 1 events.

During the 1946 season, the full sliding displacement/weight scale formula applied, but only the maximum engine displacement limits were applied during the 1947 season.

[D-Type]

Whether the original intention of the AAA had been to comply with the International Formula (aka Formula 1), if cars not compliant with the Formula limits were eligible the race was no longer a Formula 1 race, even if it was contested entirely by 4½ litre cars.

Would you consider midget races between 1954 and 1960 to be Formula 1 races?

[FAL]

He had an interest in a karting centre and a golf course down Exeter way. Does he live near Exeter perhaps?

He did live at Woodbury (where his golf course was - and not a million miles from Dunkeswell kart track) near Exeter for a time. Probably after his income had reduced enough to obviate the need to live in the Isle of Mann and before it went up again sufficiently to drive him offshore again?
All is now revealed as to why Keith the seal (you have to watch UK Midlands TV to understand...) reached Bewdley - he thought Upton on Severn was the head of navigation of the Severn! (its a long way from the sea/Severn Estuary).

It's perhaps worth mentioning that many (most?) UK motorsport amateur competitors utterly loath football/soccer. It's mostly to do with the publicity it got/gets when motorsport doesn't and probably a bit of a class thing too. Only in later years has football (soccer and rugby league but not rugby union) become "mainstream" in the UK as opposed to being a "working class" sport. UK Motorsport, on the other hand, has an image of "middle/upper class" participation. That goes for much of Europe too - but not the USA, where most motorsport is considered by some there as a "downmarket" sport like baseball.

[Don Capps]

Whether the original intention of the AAA had been to comply with the International Formula (aka Formula 1), if cars not compliant with the Formula limits were eligible the race was no longer a Formula 1 race, even if it was contested entirely by 4½ litre cars.

Would you consider midget races between 1954 and 1960 to be Formula 1 races?

Sorry, Duncan, but you seem to be wasting my time.

[D-Type]

I disagree. Trying to perpetuate the myth that the Indianapolis 500 was a Formula 1 race is wasting everyone's time.

[Don Capps]

I disagree. Trying to perpetuate the myth that the Indianapolis 500 was a Formula 1 race is wasting everyone's time.

Well, I certainly don't want to waste anybody's precious time here.

[D-Type]

Let's get this straight and consider a few facts that are not disputed.

Over the years the 'formula' for Indianapolis cars and the 'formula' for Grand Prix cars were deliberately aligned. But there were times when they differed significantly. There were also times when the capacity limits aligned but the bodywork regulations did not.
The Indianapolis 500 was one of the rounds in the [manufacturers'] World Championship in the 1920s.
It was also a round in the Drivers' World Championship from 1950 to 1960 but not for the Manufacturers' World Championship from 1958 to 1960.
The AAA did try to align their championship, and the Indianapolis 500, with the new International Formula from 1948 (Formula 1). But they gave way to pressure from some entrants and admitted 3 litre supercharged cars.

So much for facts. Once the regulations for the Indianapolis 500 admitted cars that had engine sizes in excess of that permitted by Formula 1, it ceased to be a Formula 1 race. It is just plain wrong to try and argue otherwise.

On a similar note, in 1952 and 1953 the grand prix races qualifying for the divers' World Championship were run for cars complying with the International Formula 2. But they didn't become 'honorary Formula 1 cars' - they were still Formula 2 cars.