Lewis Hamilton says Red Bull car -- not Sebastian Vettel --

[anfield5]

Granted over the last four years the RedBull team have produced the best car, but Vettel has at times been great behind the wheel of the thing. If the car was that good it would be Vettel/Webber in almost every race, but how many 1-2 finishes have they had this season... The answer is 1 way back in Malaysia. Hardly points at an unbeatable car that anyone could win in.

I can't imagine Merc are too chuffed with Hamilton's inane comments either, because they are a bit of a swipe at his own team as well. When will this half-wit learn to keep his trap shut?

[dj_bytedisaster]

Granted over the last four years the RedBull team have produced the best car, but Vettel has at times been great behind the wheel of the thing. If the car was that good it would be Vettel/Webber in almost every race, but how many 1-2 finishes have they had this season... The answer is 1 way back in Malaysia. Hardly points at an unbeatable car that anyone could win in.

I can't imagine Merc are too chuffed with Hamilton's inane comments either, because they are a bit of a swipe at his own team as well. When will this half-wit learn to keep his trap shut?

The "secret" is that like the 2011 car this year's car has a form of exhaust blown diffuser, except that they don't do it through engine mapping but through the legal 50ms late ignition of 4 cylinders (4-cylinder mode). This method is even more dependent on the driver adapting to a ridiculously counter-intuitive driving style (e.g. flooring the throttle when the back is about to step out). Vettel manages that, Webber doesn't that's why the big differences in '11 and '13 as opposed to '10 and '12.

[Parabolica]

I've heard Hamilton's comments about F1 becoming boring because it is like the Schumacher dominated years.

And I find it somewhat disingenuous, to be honest.

I do not believe, for a nano-second, that he would say the same if he enjoyed a car good enough to take him to four titles in a row.

He'd love it.

And so would all the others.

I do wish, sometimes, that he could stop pandering to the only-able-to-concentrate-for-a-second, raised-on-a-diet-of-sound-bites MTV kids whose interest in F1 relies on instant entertainment and the success of their chosen favourite.

Great racer, I'm happy to admit.

[The Black Knight]

[quote=dj_bytedisaster]

I really don't see how what Lewis said can be seen as sour grapes. The simple fact is that everyone is beatable. Webber has beaten Seb on more than a few occasions. So yeah, everyone is beatable and that applies for every one of the great because ultimately we're all human. No matter how good a job you do, it's always possible that someone else can do better

The thing that makes Lewis' statement look like sour grapes is talking down Vettel's abilities while he has to beg his team for suggestions on how to get past a Sauber. His own team mate was just 2 positions behind him and he had an additional stop and you need to keep in mind that said team mate was about to overtake him, when the Merc decided to disintegrate. Talking down other drivers' abilities is a bad idea in general, especially if you haven't got the stats to back it up and saying something like that on a race weekend where one performed mediocre at best is just a bad idea.[/quote:1lnfnntj]

As for a mediocre weekend, he out qualified his teammate and was quite far ahead of him when his tires gave away bu you do make valid points. It was very strange the way Hamilton's tire just went suddenly as they did. He has changed his driving style to suit the tires and even in the final phase of the race he managed to preserve them pretty well so I don't know what happened there. Unfortunately, for Hamilton, I do believe that this type of F1 plays against him, such is his natural aggressive style. He can't push 100% lap after lap which is what he wants to do, so maybe that is part of why his tires gave way in Korea. he has made them last well at times that Nico hasn't, so I don't think there's any real evidence for us to go on and say that why he lost so much time was all down to him being mediocre, it more likely to do with the car, but it is possible that he may have unintentionally overcooked them alright - I'm open to that possibility and if so he'll learn from it I'm sure.

Just for the record, the only all time great I currently see on the grid today is Alonso. He has proven that, in my opinion. Though I am a massive Hamilton fan, I don't regard him as one of the all time greats yet and he has work to do in order to prove that but so did Alonso 3 years ago. Though Seb is now about to win 4 in a row, at times it has seemed he just has had a massive car advantage over the field. If he could do something like Alonso did last year or something equally impressive I'd then regard him as an all time great.

[anfield5]

Granted over the last four years the RedBull team have produced the best car, but Vettel has at times been great behind the wheel of the thing. If the car was that good it would be Vettel/Webber in almost every race, but how many 1-2 finishes have they had this season... The answer is 1 way back in Malaysia. Hardly points at an unbeatable car that anyone could win in.

I can't imagine Merc are too chuffed with Hamilton's inane comments either, because they are a bit of a swipe at his own team as well. When will this half-wit learn to keep his trap shut?

The "secret" is that like the 2011 car this year's car has a form of exhaust blown diffuser, except that they don't do it through engine mapping but through the legal 50ms late ignition of 4 cylinders (4-cylinder mode). This method is even more dependent on the driver adapting to a ridiculously counter-intuitive driving style (e.g. flooring the throttle when the back is about to step out). Vettel manages that, Webber doesn't that's why the big differences in '11 and '13 as opposed to '10 and '12.

You are quite correct. But doesn't this further indicate that Vettel is something a little bit special, being able to adapt and drive in a counter intuitive way to get the best out of the car?

[dj_bytedisaster]

You are quite correct. But doesn't this further indicate that Vettel is something a little bit special, being able to adapt and drive in a counter intuitive way to get the best out of the car?

I'm not in the camp of people, who have a need to categorize people as being 'special' or 'all time greats'. In the end, those that we called the all time greats usually drove the best cars of their time. You simply don't win world championships in the 4th best car on the grid. Simple as that. What sets apart a very good driver from a good one is the ability to sustain a challenge over a whole season.

For me there are three groups of drivers - champion material, solid drivers and those, who shouldn't be in F1. Assignment to these groups isn't static, it changes with time. Young drivers, no matter what they did in junior formulae always start in the 'soild' group as they cannot have the experience required to sustain a championship campaign for a full year. Some make it into the 'championship material' group. Some sooner, some later. Currently we have four of those - Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel and Räikkönen. All others IMHO have too many 'off days' for a sustained challenge. Hulk could be one, who could make the 'promotion' some day.

I don't think it is worth the hassle to compare the current four 'champion material' drivers as each have their own specific strengths and weaknesses. The fact that Vettel is currently ahead of the other two is, that he is in a team where he can use his specific strength - adaptability and methodical work - to full effect, while for instance the Merc aggravates one of Hamilton's weaknesses, not being able to drive a smooth style. Same goes for the Ferrari. Alonso has always been better on Sundays than he was on Saturdays. The fact that Ferrari build cars that are weak in qualifying compounds Alonso's predicament. That doesn't make Hamilton or Alonso any better or worse than Vettel. They are merely not in the right place or they lack the ability of people like Senna or Schumacher, who could tell the engineers exactly what they wanted and developed the cars to suit their preference.

The harsh reaction to Vettel's alleged dominance (people forget that until after Hungary the races were far from foregone conclusions and that we had 7 different winners last year) is down to something completely different. Back in the day, when the Schumacher/Ferrari era began, there was only one other driver in the 'championship material' group, while today there are three others, who want to add to the titles they've already won. That's three major fanbases, who feel like getting shafted for the fourth year in a row. That's why there is so much backlash, especially since Vettel has the wrong nationality. Many of the Hamilton crowd (Brits) traditionally don't take kindly to being beaten by Germans, even less so if it happens 11 times in 20 years. The Spanish (Alonso crowd) and the Italians (Tifosi) are currently not exactly Germany fans either, because they've been getting fed by their national media for a long time, that Germany is to blame for the fact their own governments brankrupted their own countries.

[Tazio]

Maybe the moral of this topic is that we can hardly criticize any drivers for being arrogant. It looks like they can all make arrogant comments depending on context, if we can actually trust the media, that is. Often we can't though.

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner. Well stated Jens! Who actually gives a crap what they say, as long as what they are saying is what they think is the truth, or their honest perceptions of the truth? It seems to me that it is human nature to point out the inequities (for whatever reason they exist) by freakin’ guys like Fred and The Boss, because they get asked questions that lead to those comparisons. Vettel doesn't have to say shit obviously. And Kimi is just not engaging in the game because that is part of his deal, which is cool!!! Alright?

[Mia 01]

What else could he say, that he is a much worse driver than Seb?

Boring, for who, for Lewis and his fans?

[Ari33]

[quote=The Black Knight][quote="dj_bytedisaster":1zwwhc2r]

Just for the record, the only all time great I currently see on the grid today is Alonso. He has proven that, in my opinion. Though I am a massive Hamilton fan, I don't regard him as one of the all time greats yet and he has work to do in order to prove that but so did Alonso 3 years ago. Though Seb is now about to win 4 in a row, at times it has seemed he just has had a massive car advantage over the field. If he could do something like Alonso did last year or something equally impressive I'd then regard him as an all time great.

[/quote:1zwwhc2r][/quote:1zwwhc2r]

Wow, My thoughts exactly!

I wouldn't call myself a die-hard Alonso fan but I have to admit he is something a bit special. He has continued to impress year in year out and I see him as being the best all rounder, able to get the very best (and then some) out of whatever car or situation he is given. While he may not be the absolute quickest driver in terms of single lap pace, his abilities in all other areas outweigh that... as we have witnessed so consistently over the years.

In comparison, I don't feel Lewis is quite so well rounded in terms of guile and self belief but he does have amazing single lap pace, is an absolute joy to watch when all is going well, and like Alonso, Kimi etc I believe he would also be a multi world champion if he/they had been in the RB these last few years.

Where does that leave Vetel ? I have no doubts he is also right up there or there abouts but as with most multi World Champions he has definitely in the right car/team at the right time. I think we will only find out just how good he is when we have a great yardstick as team mate with which to measure him against. Until then.....


I think Lewis stating the obvious probably points to low self esteem (if he feels he feels the need to defend his lack of recent success).. than anything else.

[Parabolica]

Boring, for who, for Lewis and his fans?

No Mr Alca, this is the correct answer!