Lewis Hamilton says Red Bull car -- not Sebastian Vettel --

[The Black Knight]

I left that out, because the points are one thing, the wins another. For instance he got gifted points in Malaysia and Rosberg had a much larger share of bad luck this year. It wasn't ment to say Lewis is bad, just merely that he looks silly saying things like that.

Rosberg also got gifted a win in Silverstone when Hamilton's car broke down. Over the course of a season it tends to balance itself out. Fact is, he's new to the team, has had trouble with the braking and he's still beating Rosberg - whihch I'm surpised at to be honest as I always rated and still do rate Nico as one of the best.

Back to your point though about him looking silly, we all have our point of view, and I really do feel Hamilton's is valid. In RBR you have one guy on the way to retirement and the other is a youngster at the top of his game - it's hardly a benchmark for Seb.

He was competitive enough in the Toro Rosso. He still has scored mor points with them than all other TR drivers combined. There is much praise for Hulkenberg driving the 5th or 6th best car to 4th. Vettel did that more than once in a TR, which was no match most of the time for the Ferraris, Macca's, Renaults, Toyota's and BMW/Saubers of the time.

I agree that he did a great job in Toro Rosso but that TR wasn't as bad as a lot of people make it out to be at all.

No, I don't. He says the RB is unbeatable. Why then does he constantly outperform one of them and denigrates the driver of the one he doesn't. To me that sounds like sour grapes. Saying 'it's all the car' makes someone look silly, who never had to drive a midfield car, but had top team material all his career.

Though we're dusting off an old chestnut again, Hamilton's 2009 McLaren was a shite car and he still won 3 races in it and could have finished on the podium in the opening race in Oz. To say he's had a top car all his career and never had to drive a midfield is woefully inaccurate as clearly he did have to drive a midfield car in 2009 when he won 3 races

The truth is, we can make arguments back and forth about Vettel but as of right now your POV and mine both have merit. Nobody is doubting Vettel is a top driver, I just very much doubt that he's the actual best driver on the grid.

I think this is simply a case of fans being far too defensive. Lewis is an F1 driver and contrary to popular belief, he is allowed to express his opinion every now and then. It's not exclusive to us forumers and he hasn't exactly said anything controversial here. The Red Bull is the best car on the grid at the moment. Vettel is top class driver and with any top car, it needs a decent driver to deliver the result. If all these top drivers had exactly the same car, I don't think anybody could call who would win. There's barely a fag paper between these guys in terms of talent, but this is a team sport and they all want the best overall package. Hamilton knows how good Vettel is, and he knows Red Bull have the edge. We are from a free speech society so I am happy to hear any of these guys opinions.

Spot on. I wish more drivers would express their opinoin like this. Hamilton and Webber are probably the only two left on the grid that will.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Spot on. I wish more drivers would express their opinoin like this. Hamilton and Webber are probably the only two left on the grid that will.

If anything, Vettel and Kimi are the ones, who offer their opinion in a straight-forward manner. All that came from Lewis lately were sour grapes and don't get me started on Mark, he's a hypocritical, pathological liar, who's got a nasty habit of manipulating the media in his favour. There is an endless list of incidents in which Mark fed them bullshit lines to portray himself as the poor victim, when in reality he wasn't. Take 'wing-gate' for example. Who would forget his act of righteous indignation in the presser at Silverstone '10, after the team had 'stolen' his precious front-wing, conveniently forgetting to mention that he didn't really feel like it made a difference, while Vettel said, it made the car's handling a lot better for him. But of course it was easier to play the poor wronged underdog. Then we have his arrogant bragging, how he ignored team orders at Silverstone '11 and his declaration that he won't help Vettel ain Brazil 2012, only to play the upset victim when Vettel returned the favour in Malaysia this year. I don't know if that is all Mark's doing or if his girlfriend/manager Ann Neill is behind these media manipulations, but Mark is not one, who's name springs to mind when it comes to straight opinions. He is blunt, but honest he isn't.

[The Black Knight]

[quote=dj_bytedisaster]

Spot on. I wish more drivers would express their opinoin like this. Hamilton and Webber are probably the only two left on the grid that will.

If anything, Vettel and Kimi are the ones, who offer their opinion in a straight-forward manner. All that came from Lewis lately were sour grapes and don't get me started on Mark, he's a hypocritical, pathological liar, who's got a nasty habit of manipulating the media in his favour. There is an endless list of incidents in which Mark fed them bullshit lines to portray himself as the poor victim, when in reality he wasn't. Take 'wing-gate' for example. Who would forget his act of righteous indignation in the presser at Silverstone '10, after the team had 'stolen' his precious front-wing, conveniently forgetting to mention that he didn't really feel like it made a difference, while Vettel said, it made the car's handling a lot better for him. But of course it was easier to play the poor wronged underdog. Then we have his arrogant bragging, how he ignored team orders at Silverstone '11 and his declaration that he won't help Vettel ain Brazil 2012, only to play the upset victim when Vettel returned the favour in Malaysia this year. I don't know if that is all Mark's doing or if his girlfriend/manager Ann Neill is behind these media manipulations, but Mark is not one, who's name springs to mind when it comes to straight opinions. He is blunt, but honest he isn't.[/quote:265aiwk6]

Sour grapes is your interpretation of those events. I see it differently. The wing made a one tenth of a second difference at Silverstone. And remember it was Helmut Marko that said Mark didn't notice the difference. I've never heard this from Mark himself, so the accuracy of your Silverstone portrayal is very much a doubt. As for the rest of your post, there is some in it I agree with, other things in it I don't but this thread is what Hamilton says about Vettel, not Mark

I really don't see how what Lewis said can be seen as sour grapes. The simple fact is that everyone is beatable. Webber has beaten Seb on more than a few occasions. So yeah, everyone is beatable and that applies for every one of the great because ultimately we're all human. No matter how good a job you do, it's always possible that someone else can do better

[dj_bytedisaster]

I really don't see how what Lewis said can be seen as sour grapes. The simple fact is that everyone is beatable. Webber has beaten Seb on more than a few occasions. So yeah, everyone is beatable and that applies for every one of the great because ultimately we're all human. No matter how good a job you do, it's always possible that someone else can do better

The thing that makes Lewis' statement look like sour grapes is talking down Vettel's abilities while he has to beg his team for suggestions on how to get past a Sauber. His own team mate was just 2 positions behind him and he had an additional stop and you need to keep in mind that said team mate was about to overtake him, when the Merc decided to disintegrate. Talking down other drivers' abilities is a bad idea in general, especially if you haven't got the stats to back it up and saying something like that on a race weekend where one performed mediocre at best is just a bad idea.

[JasonPotato]

I'm pretty certain any of the top drivers would have won a few titles, if not all 4 if they were in Seb's car. So Lewis has a point.

Sour grapes? Why would he have sour grapes now compared to the last 4 years?

[Tazio]

Great dice by Fred, Hulk, and the Boss, even if it was for fourth. All three of those freakin' guys deserve better cars.

“Me and Fernando in fifth and sixth at the end having our own little race, yet we are of a higher caliber than that.

There is just not enough Neweys to go around, with all the championship caliber drivers in the field quite frankly.

The Ferrari driver spent the first part of the race behind the Sauber and could not overtake him.

Later in the race, Alonso was behind the Mercedes of Lewis Hamilton, who also failed to pass Hulkenberg.

"What Nico is doing is superb," said Alonso when asked about the German's performance.

"He is driving very, very well and he deserved to be in front of us because he did a fantastic race.

"They [Sauber] were very good this weekend and they are doing a very good job.

"They were in the top three in qualifying at Monza as well, so they are on a high at the moment."

The Spaniard believes that the change in Pirelli's control tyres has played a part in Sauber's upturn in form.

As someone who has been known to support Pirelli in the past, I have to say I’ve gotten really tired of the tire conservation style racing we are subject to. Racing was more exciting when we had refueling and tires that could be pushed for 20 laps. JMHO

Nice thread BTW I started it as a joke

[henners88]

[quote=dj_bytedisaster]

I really don't see how what Lewis said can be seen as sour grapes. The simple fact is that everyone is beatable. Webber has beaten Seb on more than a few occasions. So yeah, everyone is beatable and that applies for every one of the great because ultimately we're all human. No matter how good a job you do, it's always possible that someone else can do better

The thing that makes Lewis' statement look like sour grapes is talking down Vettel's abilities while he has to beg his team for suggestions on how to get past a Sauber. His own team mate was just 2 positions behind him and he had an additional stop and you need to keep in mind that said team mate was about to overtake him, when the Merc decided to disintegrate. Talking down other drivers' abilities is a bad idea in general, especially if you haven't got the stats to back it up and saying something like that on a race weekend where one performed mediocre at best is just a bad idea.[/quote:gpktdtjr]
Myself and Black Knight have not tried to discredit Vettel in our analysis yet you've still felt the need to make a few below the belt remarks about Hamilton in response. I'm not sure it achieves what you intended. I fear you're leading us down the 'my driver is better than your driver avenue' and I can't see the point in that over a pretty valid statement by Hamilton.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Myself and Black Knight have not tried to discredit Vettel in our analysis yet you've still felt the need to make a few below the belt remarks about Hamilton in response. I'm not sure it achieves what you intended. I fear you're leading us down the 'my driver is better than your driver avenue' and I can't see the point in that over a pretty valid statement by Hamilton.

I'm not saying that you tried to discredit anyone. I said that Lewis does and I thought it is uncalled for. Mercedes made the loudest noise over Vettel's 'balls in pool' quip, yet their own driver has denigrated the achievements of a competitor. I'm not keeping count, but it must have been the third or fourth time he's said something like 'It's not Vettel, it's the car'. I think such a thing is not worthy of a world champion as it has a bit of a trash-talky ring to it.
In Lewis' defense though; he's merely repeating the lines he's been fed by the English press since the summer break. Maybe he and Vettel would be better off getting a press person, like Schumacher had with S. Kehm. Both have put their foot firmly in their mouth lately with statements that weren't really thought through, giving their detractors the chance to have a field day with it.

[F1boat]

These day, it is all PR, IMO. Lewis is protecting his brand and although I think that Seb is a special driver in a special car, I can understand why Lewis is trying to downplay his superiority.
But I think that it is a little bit bad for the sport if a true great is not recognized.

[jens]

Maybe the moral of this topic is that we can hardly criticize any drivers for being arrogant. It looks like they can all make arrogant comments depending on context, if we can actually trust the media, that is. Often we can't though.