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Thread: Non champions
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16th August 2013, 11:03 #11
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Originally Posted by Mintexmemory
It was his never-give-up approach, of course. But a Grand Prix champion has to look at the bigger picture. A fantastic racer, no doubt. But well short of having a Champions focus.
I also never bought into the Pironi-as-a-pantomime-villain myth, as pedalled by Nigel Roebuck. In deed, I always suspected that the likes of Roebuck had already found Pironi guilty of being French long before the Imola incident and was more than happy to crucify him on a one-sided, uncorroborated, statement from Villenueve.
There was no Divine actions on the Saturday at Hockenheim in 1982. Just a man in agonising pain. Sadly.Q: What's worse than a Bully? A: His Sidekick
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16th August 2013, 11:55 #12
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Originally Posted by Parabolica
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16th August 2013, 19:12 #13
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Originally Posted by RolloSPAM - Going off topic to give you the deals you don't want.
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16th August 2013, 20:39 #14
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One that is remembered with affection is Wolfgang Von Trips.
I was starkly touched by the words of Phil Hill many years later, who said that winning a World Championship was supposed to be the greatest moment in a drivers life, yet events meant that he felt sorrow and numbness.
Another I have heard about, but was too young to witness, was Francois Cevert. Of course, the 1974 Tyrrell was maybe not a Championship car in comparison to the 003 model, but he was strongly tipped to be a big contender when he passed away.
I am sorry if I have taken this thread in a morbid direction.
I can make funny balloons, if it is a compensation.Q: What's worse than a Bully? A: His Sidekick
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16th August 2013, 21:07 #15
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I was fortunate to see Wolfgang Von Trips at the British Grand Prix,the very last time he did it in maybe 1961 ish .He died very shortly after that ,in maybe the next race he did.
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16th August 2013, 23:18 #16
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The German GP came between the British and Italian GPs in 1961.
He finished a posthumous 2nd to Phil Hill in the championship one point behind. So, had he not been killed he would have been in contention.Duncan Rollo
The more you learn, the more you realise how little you know.
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17th August 2013, 00:59 #17
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Originally Posted by D-Type
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17th August 2013, 17:23 #18
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Originally Posted by MintexmemoryOriginally Posted by Parabolica
He thought Gilles drove for the wrong team and that his talent needed managing and Watson thought McLaren could probably tame/refine him.
I've remember coming across similar comments from a Lotus mechanic regarding Ronnie Peterson "very quick, but probably needed managing" and thus I would say the same about Stefan Bellof. Notice a pattern here? Lairy/flair drivers. Schekter used to have a reputation.
I don't think Gilles was psychologically weak but his mentality was that he lived life at his fullest and certainly if not Zolder then a helicopter crash/fatality would be unsurprising.
Gilles raced to win and far too much of a romantic. Racing for points wasn't part of his make up (Jacky Ickx uses the same 'excuse'. I'm not sure what to make of him as he comes across as an intelligent guy).
In effect going into Zolder '82 with Gilles' frame of mind and his mentality it was almost like a ticking time bomb.
Sayin that Gilles was undoubtedly a great driver as he could polish a turd but perhaps not an all time great (multiple WDCs) if he couldn't be tamed and I doubt he would want or convinced to be tamed.
Also worth noting is that regardless of team order Gilles could have been WDC if he was ruthless enough. Schekter remarked that he was was worried looking in the mirror with Gilles up his backside at the 1979 Italian GP.
As for Roebuck I admire his knowledge and work as a journalist. Although he struck a number of friendships and relationships with drivers there is good and bad points to this and unfortunately he as very biased towards a number of drivers. He can be all to happy to slam Mansell who was a fantastic racer and yet be happily talk about Montoya even though he was a divisive character within the GP paddock as much as Mansell was! I seem to remember Roebuck mentioning Jenks had similar contradictory logic but there is no doubt Roebuck has his favourites.The world according to Taki Inoue: https://mobile.twitter.com/takiinoue/st ... 7249326080
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17th August 2013, 19:01 #19
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How about, on the basis of early 1980 and the summer of 1983, the other Dijon protagonist?
Rene Arnoux, possibly the fastest Frenchman of all time.Q: What's worse than a Bully? A: His Sidekick
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17th August 2013, 19:15 #20
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Originally Posted by wedge
Originally Posted by wedge
The stories of Villeneuve's helicopter flying bear out your view. One is inevitably reminded of Colin McRae.
Originally Posted by wedge
As for Ickx himself, he seems, from what one has read, to be rather a changed character these days, a fact he appears to recognise — somewhat more thoughtful and grateful towards others. I think it was David Hobbs who recalled him less than fondly from their days together in the John Wyer sports car team, describing Ickx as extremely selfish. Few say that of him now.
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