New R4 Class

[skarderud]

I don't know if any manufacturer has any plans one something like sti/evo? That is the first step if anything can be something.
A smaller than impreza-ish car, 1,6 ltr is most easy(?), good but not real good dampers, like a n4 light. As much as posible standardparts, and so on.

[OldF]

What I would like is some kind of regulations for privateers based on let’s say R5 regulations. Private tuners could “homologate” a car with a technical passport which was announce by FIA for the R-GT cars.

The “homologation” could be done with the local ASN to avoid language difficulties. The privateers’ tuners having access to the “R5 homologation regulations” could develop their own parts not copying the original parts by the manufacturers.

This is just my initial though not thinking about any details involved with this issue.

[Mirek]

I share Your opinion.

[Sulland]

Just thinking out load here;
Take a DS3 R3T and add a simple 4wd system that would be a generic one. How much would that add to the 90-100 000 euro pricetag?
Would it end up closer to the R3 or closer to the R5 DS3?

[A FONDO]

The 4wd systems are produced by just a few providers who put them unreally high prices and FIA will never allow something else. If one wants affordable 4wd car there are plenty of second-hand Lancers - cheap, reliable and sometimes able to beat s2000 if drivers are poor.

[Mirek]

Just thinking out load here;
Take a DS3 R3T and add a simple 4wd system that would be a generic one. How much would that add to the 90-100 000 euro pricetag?
Would it end up closer to the R3 or closer to the R5 DS3?

It would be basically an R5. You must take into account that DS3 R3 has torsion beam rear axle which is hardly useful for any kind of 4WD system so it must be replaced by something different and since then You are with the R5 again. Also the original chassis is not built for accommodation of 4WD drivetrain so it must be modified anyway.

[Abarth]

The 4wd systems are produced by just a few providers who put them unreally high prices and FIA will never allow something else. If one wants affordable 4wd car there are plenty of second-hand Lancers - cheap, reliable and sometimes able to beat s2000 if drivers are poor.

So better with tech rules and free provider, that will drop the prices?

is that the same with tires?

[OldF]

The price of the DS3 R3T kit is 63 500 € (tarmac or gravel) and the price of the standard car parts is 5 700 €, total 69 200 €. M-Sport charges about 15 050 € for stripping the standard road car, installing the kit, installing the roll cage a painting the inside of the car white.

69 200 + 15 050 = 84 250 ~ 85 000 €.

The price gap to a R5 should be big enough to make any sense of these kind of cars, maybe 130 000 – 150 000 € for a complete car. Would 45 000 – 65 000 € be enough for the “4WD” modification of the body shell and 4WD drive train?

The front suspension could be as it is. Using the front wishbones, drive shafts, dampers, springs, uprights and wheel hubs also at the rear with a new rear subframe would make logistical parts control easier. No wide body shells, only a S2000 / R5 rear wing to distinguish these cars from R3T cars.

Wouldn’t be a competitor to S2000 or R5 but maybe a more affordable option for privateers to homologate it with a technical passport and maybe more spectacular with less suspension travel jumping all over the stages.

[tommeke_B]

Why make another class when there already isn't enough competition in R3 and S2000/R5/RRC in many countries? Dividing the competitors in even more classes isn't a good thing imho...

[Mirek]

I don't think that there would be any significant interest in 4WD cars unable of fighting for overall glory even in national championships (unless those are really weak). Even the interest in Gr.N cars is decreasing (in some asphalt countries they disappeared completely). A car which costs 3/4 of R5 but is non-competitive against it is useless. When the S2000 were on their top there were already plenty of cheap cars available (such as old Abarths, Corollas, Polos, even modern but slow Protons were reasonably cheaper than the best machinery but there was almost nobody willing to buy them. I know about one quite good Punto S2000 which was not sold even for 70 thousand Euro in time when new top S2000 cost 300 thousand. Nobody was interested in that car even for rent when it was offered to several very good drivers for half of normal price S2000 prices.