New R4 Class

[Abarth]

Why not make new R4 class? Cheap start class in 4wd.
New R2T or R3T engine + common 4wd system.

[Mirek]

R4 already exists and it's a tuning of N4.

Anyway such idea is basically used for R5 which is like an up-tuned R3T 4x4.

[Abarth]

For many 200 000 euro is not cheap. Why not a cheaper 4wd class than r5. max 180 hp and 4wd from a 13-1600 ccm engine, and max 50 000 euro with many standard parts.

[Mirek]

We had plenty of discussions about that before. Competitive machinery under current homologation system will always be expensive regardless the rules. "Your" car would be useful only for one make cups probably and that's why I can hardly see some manufacturer interested.

Besides that for what is 180 Hp 1.4 ccm 4x4 car good for? It would bring zero spectacle and it would be probably almost all the time slower than top 2WD cars.

For Your information top R2 cars cost over 60 thousand Euro...

[TyPat107]

The first car I rallied was a Subaru impreza RS that was 4wd, 2.5L naturally aspirated and made about 180bhp~150whp on 91octane and while it was fun from a driver perspective (particularly on flat or downhill roads) Uphill it really was a dog. They can be decently quick in the right hands but to do so means you have to be very very smooth and not very spectacular to watch at that point.

While not quite a "spec class" here in the States, the class for these was called Open LIght and there just aren't many options for a factory built AWD car with under 2600cc engines.

[Mirek]

Exactly, moreover most of the stock AWD are just helper systems for getting out of deep snow or something but no really useful full time systems.

[skarderud]

In norway a couple of years ago they had an Subaru cup. It was a N4 light concept, good thinking and idea! Andreas Mikkelsen was wery fast with that car i remember. The cost was around 50.000 €, but they f...ed it up alittle with some dodgy tiredeals and inside deals on other parts. It ended in angrynes and politics. Sad, the concept was really good.

[noel157]

In norway a couple of years ago they had an Subaru cup. It was a N4 light concept, good thinking and idea! Andreas Mikkelsen was wery fast with that car i remember. The cost was around 50.000 €, but they f...ed it up alittle with some dodgy tiredeals and inside deals on other parts. It ended in angrynes and politics. Sad, the concept was really good.

I remember that, it was during Mikkelsen's time of poverty ( ), taught him a lot, hasn't done too bad since.....

[Sulland]

In norway a couple of years ago they had an Subaru cup. It was a N4 light concept, good thinking and idea! Andreas Mikkelsen was wery fast with that car i remember. The cost was around 50.000 €, but they f...ed it up alittle with some dodgy tiredeals and inside deals on other parts. It ended in angrynes and politics. Sad, the concept was really good.

Yes this was a very good cup, but unfortunately it did not last long.

But the R4 category is currently "forgotten" by FIA it seams. N4 has been a cheap option to go 4wd for years, with Subaru and Mitsubishi, but is dying. They tried the kiss of life with R4 upgrades to try to match S2000, but did not succeed, you added cost but not much else.


So the idea of a new and cheap 4wd class is not bad, we need more than one 4wd class in national and international rally, when WRCar is dying, and R5 takes over.
Maybe the cup idea could be used as in Junior WRC, but with a 4wd car, 3 years at the time contracts for the factory.
Or we can do an idea mingling here; How should a new R4 class look like?
- Tech reg
- Max Price

[OldF]

A riddle.

What’s the difference between a 2WD car and a 4WD car?