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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster
    Name one before you lol
    Adam
    .

  2. #12
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    henners, maybe you can come up with a more helpful response? The question was, how many of Vettel's wins came through team order and I claimed that none of those were the result of team orders. Your initial, not very philosophic reply indicates that you disagree, so instead of spamming rubbish, how about you tell us a win that came through team orders?
    как могу я знать что я думаю, пока не слушал что я говорю

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster
    henners, maybe you can come up with a more helpful response? The question was, how many of Vettel's wins came through team order and I claimed that none of those were the result of team orders. Your initial, not very philosophic reply indicates that you disagree, so instead of spamming rubbish, how about you tell us a win that came through team orders?
    You know what I can't tell you how many wins came by the use of team orders because I don't have access to that kind of inside information and neither do you! It is one of those questions that no fan in the land can answer definitively hence why I mocked your initial response. I was being rather light hearted about things and if you feel that was offensive then that is not my problem.

    Now seeing as you can answer the question, lets see you back it up!
    .

  4. #14
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    Meanwhile...

    "Red Bull's Sebastian Vettel says he would "probably" ignore team orders again if he was instructed not to challenge team-mate Mark Webber.
    Vettel was asked if he would repeat his actions from the Malaysian Grand Prix.
    He said: "I'm not sure I can give a proper answer because in the moment it might be different but I would probably do the same."
    Vettel added his move was "indirectly" a form of payback for what he said was a lack of past support from Webber.
    Vettel said: "I never had support from his side. I have a lot of support from the team and think they are supporting both of us the same way. I respect Mark as a racing driver but there was more than one occasion in the past when he could have helped the team and he didn't."
    Vettel was asked if he was getting revenge for Webber being less than helpful in last year's title-deciding race in Brazil, when Webber appeared to be obstructive twice despite being told by the team to help Vettel in his championship battle with Ferrari's Fernando Alonso.

    The German replied: "Probably you could say indirectly so."
    Vettel did not mention the several times in the past that Webber has obeyed team orders not to challenge Vettel, even when he felt he was faster and was himself a title contender - as for example in Canada, Japan and Brazil in 2010.
    Asked if he would have given the place back had team principal Christian Horner ordered him to do so over the radio, Vettel said: "I didn't mean to ignore the team's order. I heard it, but I didn't understand it the proper way. I apologised for that.
    "Had I understood, I think (if) I had thought about it and reflected on what leaving Mark in first place meant, I probably would have done the same thing because Mark doesn't deserve that."
    Vettel explained that he did not initially understand the team's message "Multi 21" - a coded team order for Webber (car number two) to finish ahead of Vettel (car number one).
    Webber experienced the same confusion in Brazil last year, when he was given the message "Multi 12" - an order for Vettel to finish ahead of Webber.
    Vettel said he had not been punished by the team.
    "I did speak up and apologise," he said. "Sanction, punishment, what do you expect to happen? We dealt with it internally. I did apologise to the team as soon as I could, the whole team, not just the people working here."
    He admitted his actions had undermined Horner's authority.
    "You could say so," Vettel said, "but I went to talk to everyone straight afterwards. The intention was not to undermine the team principal."
    When it was suggested Horner was no longer in control of the team, Vettel said: "That is not right. He is the boss, he is in control of all the employees. I am not in any other position than I am. I am the driver."...

    BBC News


    Wow... The team abolishing team orders in support of him is one thing but for Vettel to then effectively denounce his employers authority publicly is shear arrogance on a level I've never seen before.
    Apologises for ignoring team orders then admits he'd do it again? Seb you are getting way, way too big for your boots buddy! If I was your boss you'd quickly be very aware of that fact if you tried to pull a stunt like that again.
    The emergence of the new 'Rainmaster' - Mad Max at Interlagos 2016!

  5. #15
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    Of course I don't have the definitive answer, but based on past statements of both drivers, especially Mark, I think we would remember an obvious team order that gave Vettel the win. Garry would be raising holy hell about it to the very day

    I can remember a few instances were Mark was 'asked' not to attack or to let Vettel pass. Silverstone 11, Abu Dhabi 12, Interlagos 12 come to mind. In Silverstone Mark attacked, but didn't pass. Most people think that Mark backed off, but the man himself claims to have disobeyed the team order and failing to pass. In Abu Dhabi they told him to make way and when he didn't react fast enough they 'conveniently' called him into the pits. Interlagos is a grey area as both of the RB drivers drove as if they had their helmets on back-to-front. But in all these instances it never was for a win, but for 2nd or 3rd.

    So unless there has been something super-secret behind the scenes, I am pretty convinced that no win of his came as a result of a team order and given Mark's stance on team orders it seems unlikely, too. Malaysia was the first time that Mark thought a team order was a good thing...
    как могу я знать что я думаю, пока не слушал что я говорю

  6. #16
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    There are too many digs at Webber in that post for me to go through it and comment. I'm not a fan of either driver, but it seems to me you have an interest in the public image of one but not the other.
    .

  7. #17
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    I think a good a good question to ask instead is how many World Champions have won their titles with the help of team orders?

    Answer: Every single one of them.

    Far less aggro in that summary.
    .

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster
    Not a single one
    the last one comes

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by henners88
    There are too many digs at Webber in that post for me to go through it and comment. I'm not a fan of either driver, but it seems to me you have an interest in the public image of one but not the other.
    Well, it's the image that Mark created, not me. It wasn't me, who bragged to the media in '11 that he thinks team orders are wrong and that he therefore disobeyed them and it wasn't me, who boasted to the press in Brazil '12 that he won't help his team mate. He made the bed, he has to sleep in it.
    как могу я знать что я думаю, пока не слушал что я говорю

  10. #20
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    That's the image you hold personally, not everyone. Neither driver has a squeaky clean past but Marks public admissions or condemnations earn him more respect from 'some' of us.
    .

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