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17th April 2013, 00:14 #61
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Originally Posted by Garry Walker
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17th April 2013, 02:35 #62Originally Posted by webberf1
It wasn't too long ago Petrov was called a future world champion, a few months later a pay driver...
Same for Perez, how brilliant a driver he is. And now how he does not deserve to be in the McLaren.
Hulkenberg was head and shoulders above di Resta only after Perez was already signed to McLaren, up to that point there wasn't much to chose between them. I don't think it comes into play.
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17th April 2013, 06:41 #63
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schumacher is underrated. everyone has it in their heads that 2000-2004 was due to a large budget, bridgestone tyres, testing (which all top teams did believe it or not) and byrne/todt/brawn. it was only 2002 and 2004 where he had a truly dominant car. 2001 was slightly superior to the field but this was magnified by hakkinen performing poorly and the williams lacking reliability.
the most famous and recognisable team in f1 has one drivers title in the last 33 years if you exclude schumacher's achievements. says it all really.
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17th April 2013, 09:24 #64
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Originally Posted by faster69
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17th April 2013, 12:05 #65
Any list of greatest drivers that does not include Alain Prost in it's top 5 is not worth reading, IMO.
A higher quality list of team-mates to have raced against - and beaten - I am yet to see.
Code:Points: Year: Prost: Team-mate: Difference: Team-mate: 1980 5 6 -1 John Watson 1981 43 11 +32 René Arnoux 1982 34 28 +6 René Arnoux 1983 57 22 +35 Eddie Cheever 1984 71.5 72 -0.5 Niki Lauda *** 1985 73(76) 14 +59 (+62) Niki Lauda *** 1986 72(74) 22 +50 (+52) Keke Rosberg * 1987 46 30 +16 Stefan Johansson 1988 87(105) 90(94) -3 (+11) Ayrton Senna *** 1989 76(81) 60 +16 (+21) Ayrton Senna *** 1990 71(73) 37 +34 (+36) Nigel Mansell * 1991 34 21 +13 Jean Alesi 1993 99 69 +30 Damon Hill *
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17th April 2013, 20:12 #66
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Heidfeld is certainly an interesting one. Though it is true that he didn't really have standout performances (so that nobody remembers anything from his career like one said), his general median performance level was still very high in F1 terms, which means that on his bad days he was still pretty good and over a full season collected lots of points.
From the current grid Sutil and di Resta remind me Heidfeld, although I am not sure their average level is quite a match to Nick yet, but we will see. But both Sutil and di Resta seem to have something in common - they seem quite competent and consistent, I don't really see them making many mistakes nor truly underperforming, which means they usually put the car at about where it should sit. So they are consistently competing for points. Di Resta had a bad patch at the end of last year, but everyone has had it. Overall I think he is fine.
So both Sutil and di Resta may possibly be overlooked. While you wouldn't expect them to win championships if they get a top car one day, they may still be good #2's and collect lots of points. But we can't find out for a while. I'll go on a limb and say I wouldn't have a problem if either of them got a top seat in the next few years in F1, even though people would rather to see the likes of Hülkenberg, Ricciardo, etc in top teams in the future.
After all, in my view the most important thing in F1 is to collect as many points as possible over a full season. That's what all the racing strategy is aimed at. It is nice to be spectacular, but if you can't get WDC's nor a good position for your team in WCC with that, there is little use of that. Hence I think clinical "points-drivers" shouldn't be underestimated even if they are not spectacular.
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17th April 2013, 20:29 #67
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Originally Posted by jens
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17th April 2013, 21:02 #68
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Originally Posted by BDunnell
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17th April 2013, 21:05 #69
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Originally Posted by jens
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17th April 2013, 21:15 #70
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Heidfeld was also great as you say in collecting points.
The seasons at BMW in 2007 & 2008 were his best in a good car collected so many points and podiums and matched Kubica all the way. I would love to have seen him get a top drive just to see if he could make that step up.I still exist and still find the forum occasionally. Busy busy
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