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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry Walker
    Indeed and what makes him even more impressive is how close he was to several other titles.
    2 points in 1983, 0,5 points in 1984, 3 in 1988 and 7 in 1990.
    Absolutely.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by webberf1
    Most underrated is probably Hulkenberg. If he was rated anywhere near as much as he deserves, he would be the one driving for McLaren this year.
    It surprises me how people jump on these guys after a year or two in the sport.
    It wasn't too long ago Petrov was called a future world champion, a few months later a pay driver...

    Same for Perez, how brilliant a driver he is. And now how he does not deserve to be in the McLaren.

    Hulkenberg was head and shoulders above di Resta only after Perez was already signed to McLaren, up to that point there wasn't much to chose between them. I don't think it comes into play.

  3. #63
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    schumacher is underrated. everyone has it in their heads that 2000-2004 was due to a large budget, bridgestone tyres, testing (which all top teams did believe it or not) and byrne/todt/brawn. it was only 2002 and 2004 where he had a truly dominant car. 2001 was slightly superior to the field but this was magnified by hakkinen performing poorly and the williams lacking reliability.

    the most famous and recognisable team in f1 has one drivers title in the last 33 years if you exclude schumacher's achievements. says it all really.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by faster69
    schumacher is underrated. everyone has it in their heads that 2000-2004 was due to a large budget, bridgestone tyres, testing (which all top teams did believe it or not) and byrne/todt/brawn. it was only 2002 and 2004 where he had a truly dominant car. 2001 was slightly superior to the field but this was magnified by hakkinen performing poorly and the williams lacking reliability.

    the most famous and recognisable team in f1 has one drivers title in the last 33 years if you exclude schumacher's achievements. says it all really.
    I disagree. I think it's well-appreciated that Schumacher helped get Ferrari into the position where such success became possible, so in no way can he be classed as under-rated.

  5. #65
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    Any list of greatest drivers that does not include Alain Prost in it's top 5 is not worth reading, IMO.

    A higher quality list of team-mates to have raced against - and beaten - I am yet to see.

    Code:
            Points:           
    Year:	Prost:  Team-mate:   Difference: Team-mate:       
    1980	5	6	     -1          John Watson
    1981	43	11	     +32         René Arnoux
    1982	34	28	     +6          René Arnoux
    1983	57	22	     +35         Eddie Cheever
    1984	71.5	72	     -0.5        Niki Lauda ***
    1985	73(76) 	14	     +59 (+62)   Niki Lauda ***
    1986	72(74) 	22	     +50 (+52)   Keke Rosberg *
    1987	46	30	     +16         Stefan Johansson
    1988	87(105) 90(94)	     -3  (+11)   Ayrton Senna ***
    1989	76(81)	60	     +16 (+21)   Ayrton Senna ***
    1990	71(73)	37	     +34 (+36)   Nigel Mansell *
    1991	34	21	     +13         Jean Alesi
    1993	99	69	     +30         Damon Hill *
    Heidfeld was also underrated - although almost totally anonymous. There must be a bigger reason why he got overlooked or kicked out so many times in his career and it can't have just been money.

  6. #66
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    Heidfeld is certainly an interesting one. Though it is true that he didn't really have standout performances (so that nobody remembers anything from his career like one said), his general median performance level was still very high in F1 terms, which means that on his bad days he was still pretty good and over a full season collected lots of points.

    From the current grid Sutil and di Resta remind me Heidfeld, although I am not sure their average level is quite a match to Nick yet, but we will see. But both Sutil and di Resta seem to have something in common - they seem quite competent and consistent, I don't really see them making many mistakes nor truly underperforming, which means they usually put the car at about where it should sit. So they are consistently competing for points. Di Resta had a bad patch at the end of last year, but everyone has had it. Overall I think he is fine.

    So both Sutil and di Resta may possibly be overlooked. While you wouldn't expect them to win championships if they get a top car one day, they may still be good #2's and collect lots of points. But we can't find out for a while. I'll go on a limb and say I wouldn't have a problem if either of them got a top seat in the next few years in F1, even though people would rather to see the likes of Hülkenberg, Ricciardo, etc in top teams in the future.

    After all, in my view the most important thing in F1 is to collect as many points as possible over a full season. That's what all the racing strategy is aimed at. It is nice to be spectacular, but if you can't get WDC's nor a good position for your team in WCC with that, there is little use of that. Hence I think clinical "points-drivers" shouldn't be underestimated even if they are not spectacular.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by jens
    From the current grid Sutil and di Resta remind me Heidfeld, although I am not sure their average level is quite a match to Nick yet, but we will see. But both Sutil and di Resta seem to have something in common - they seem quite competent and consistent, I don't really see them making many mistakes nor truly underperforming, which means they usually put the car at about where it should sit. So they are consistently competing for points. Di Resta had a bad patch at the end of last year, but everyone has had it. Overall I think he is fine.

    So both Sutil and di Resta may possibly be overlooked. While you wouldn't expect them to win championships if they get a top car one day, they may still be good #2's and collect lots of points. But we can't find out for a while. I'll go on a limb and say I wouldn't have a problem if either of them got a top seat in the next few years in F1, even though people would rather to see the likes of Hülkenberg, Ricciardo, etc in top teams in the future.
    I don't think it's possible to think of such drivers as over-rated or under-rated at this point in their careers.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDunnell
    I don't think it's possible to think of such drivers as over-rated or under-rated at this point in their careers.
    Yes, that's also true. However, I think I had them as examples of how driving styles can influence ratings from a wider point of view. "Spectacular" can often add an extra plus in the eyes of a casual observer, even if it isn't reflected by the stopwatch.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by jens
    Yes, that's also true. However, I think I had them as examples of how driving styles can influence ratings from a wider point of view. "Spectacular" can often add an extra plus in the eyes of a casual observer, even if it isn't reflected by the stopwatch.
    Very good point.

  10. #70
    Senior Member steveaki13's Avatar
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    Heidfeld was also great as you say in collecting points.

    The seasons at BMW in 2007 & 2008 were his best in a good car collected so many points and podiums and matched Kubica all the way. I would love to have seen him get a top drive just to see if he could make that step up.
    I still exist and still find the forum occasionally. Busy busy

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