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  1. #11
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    Button overrated? I recall there was some guy among us who really overrated him but we kind of gave him good and his gone now... the one with the metaphysics and stuff...

    For me the most overrated champion is the very best ever, the one and only, Michael Schumacher. He was talented and had a very good run but in this sport it matters a lot to be in the right place at the right moment. A footballer might look brilliant in a $h1t team but put the best driver in the worst car and he'll be nowhere. I think there plenty of others with 1,2 or 3 WDC, who in the same circumstances would have done the same as the best ever... But I think Bieber has the potential to climb on top of the list if he wins a few more titles.

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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ben
    For me the most overrated champion is the very best ever, the one and only, Michael Schumacher. He was talented and had a very good run but in this sport it matters a lot to be in the right place at the right moment. A footballer might look brilliant in a $h1t team but put the best driver in the worst car and he'll be nowhere. I think there plenty of others with 1,2 or 3 WDC, who in the same circumstances would have done the same as the best ever... But I think Bieber has the potential to climb on top of the list if he wins a few more titles.
    I think you're missing a very important thing here. Yes, Schumacher definitely had an über-car between 2000 and 2004, but it was definitely not a case of being in the right place and the right time. He made the place right. He went to Ferrari when they were the laughing stock of F1. The team was a complete joke when he joined them (someone remember engines blowing up on parade laps and parts falling off the car?). He played a major part in luring Brawn and Byrne to Ferrari, two major components in Ferrari's later success.
    как могу я знать что я думаю, пока не слушал что я говорю

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster
    I think you're missing a very important thing here. Yes, Schumacher definitely had an über-car between 2000 and 2004, but it was definitely not a case of being in the right place and the right time. He made the place right. He went to Ferrari when they were the laughing stock of F1. The team was a complete joke when he joined them (someone remember engines blowing up on parade laps and parts falling off the car?). He played a major part in luring Brawn and Byrne to Ferrari, two major components in Ferrari's later success.
    Its worth noting that Schumacher didn't make the choice to go to Ferrari. His manager Willi Weber spent a considerable amount of time trying to convince him it was a good choice with the help of Jean Todt. Schumacher wanted to sign for Williams initially. It was Todt that attracted Brawn and Byrne to the team not Michael. Obviously his was used as a unique selling point to lure them from an already successful Benetton. Weber had assurances from Todt and a healthy pay cheque to factor in to the deal. Schumacher gets far too much credit than he deserves in this instance and I think its only right to acknowledge the men who put the foundations in place.
    .

  5. #15
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    It's not matching the story that is told over here, but then this is Germanyland, where Schumacher was styled as the son of god, so I guess there were a few 'cosmetic changes' to history. But that doesn't change the fact that Schumacher didn't just luck into the best team. He endured 4 seasons of moderate success, before really taking off.
    как могу я знать что я думаю, пока не слушал что я говорю

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster
    It's not matching the story that is told over here, but then this is Germanyland, where Schumacher was styled as the son of god, so I guess there were a few 'cosmetic changes' to history. But that doesn't change the fact that Schumacher didn't just luck into the best team. He endured 4 seasons of moderate success, before really taking off.
    I'm not taking anything away from Schumacher as his history speaks for itself. I've read a few books on the great man and each author has backed up this period with similar accounts. Its also not widely spoken that Michael was not a fan of testing during his early years. He got a little too big for his boots during the 1992 season. He refused to test before Ross Brawn pulled him aside and demonstrated why the likes of Senna and Prost were workaholics in this department. Even a number one driver has to put the effort in to understand the car. It was that instance that turned Schumacher into the driver he was and made him go on to be very successful.
    .

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ben

    .... But I think Bieber has the potential to climb on top of the list if he wins a few more titles.
    I am not comfortable with Nicknames so could you please call him Vettel thanks.
    When you're tired of rallying...you're tired of life

  8. #18
    Senior Member steveaki13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ben
    Button overrated? I recall there was some guy among us who really overrated him but we kind of gave him good and his gone now... the one with the metaphysics and stuff...
    St.D
    I still exist and still find the forum occasionally. Busy busy

  9. #19
    Senior Member truefan72's Avatar
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    IMO there are very few overrated drivers and quite a lot of underrated ones
    Vettel, like him or not is a 3x back-to back-to back WDC winner, and already showed his pace in a torro rosso the year before.
    Now he is still a spoiled and petulant brat, and not as god as Kimi, Alonso and Hamilton in pure racecraft, but not that far behind as some would like to believe

    Anybody slagging Schumacher off is really not being honest with themselves. 7X WDC champion, holder of almost every significant F1 record, and while I am far from being a fan of his, I do respect his achievements and racecraft. There is no denying it. to me if anything, last year proved that he still had it and would have finished high in the points of not for lady bad luck. Then again some might argue that it was Karma for all those years of dubious decisions going his and Ferrari's way.

    Damon Hill is one of the few that I think is underrated, but not by much. I don't think he was a spectacular driver, but He should have been a 2X WDC champion and I wonder how that conversation about him would be different.

    Prost to me was a better driver than Senna. And should have been a 5X WDC winner if not of some ridiculous points systems back in the day. Losing a championship despite scoring more points and having a better season. People like to hail Senna too much IMO and I think (oh the blasphemy) is slightly overrated in comparison to his peers. Was he an excellent driver, yes, was he the best, not in my book. I think the Senna lore comes from an incredible PR machine, combined with his young death and his larger than life character, while he was alive. For those of us old enough to remember him as a driver, and watched his entire career, There were a few other guys on the track that were more than a match for him. Mansell and Piquet, and of course Prost. Piquet was lightning quick, and was more like the kimi of his time. Was a 3X WDC champ and on his day pretty untouchable. Mansell was a bit of an enigma but no denying his racecraft. and if not for a blown tire could have been a 2x WDC winner.

    and Finally to Jacques Villeneuve who seems, particularly in this forum, to get mocked quite a bit. Folks forget that he was a very very good driver (arguably better than his father IMO) and before coming to F1 as a phenom, was already and IndyCar Champ, His rookie year was sensational, his 2nd year won the title, and by the 3rd year with a diminished Williams and a notoriously fickle and ridiculous driver management approach of Williams was falling out of favor, mostly due to the fact the team loved to blame the drivers for thir poor results rather than the car. The rest of his career will be defined by an ill advised but noble move to BAR. He should have gone to Ferrari, but of course MSC would have none of that. and imagine how different his career would have looked if he did.

    ok, my apologies for the overly long post.
    you can't argue with results.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by zako85
    I'd disagree. To be overrated, first someone has to rate him high to begin with. He is a fine number 2 for RedBull. He is pretty fast and consistent. However, he is slow enough not to get on Vettel's way most of the time. Would have Vettel won WDC if Webber was actually fast enough to challenge Vettel?
    I know you're talking about Webber, but I would use that same logic to say that Bruno Senna was not overrated. I'm not aware that anyone was realistically expecting him to set the world on fire. Many of us Senna fans wanted to see him do well simply/mainly because we had great love for his uncle. I cheered for Christian Fittipaldi in both F1 and CART for the same reason. But no, I just don't know of anyone who had him winning the WDC or ever driving for Ferrari, McLaren or Red Bull. He was about average, I would say. I can easily think of many drivers who were a lot worse (who also had financial backing) than him. So I'm glad that he made it to F1 and was respectable for the time that he was here. He did a heck of a lot better than Giancarlo Fisichella did when he went to Ferrari. That was actually painful to watch.

    As for overrated drivers, I'm beginning to question how good Hulkenberg really is. I like the kid. But it seems like there's a piece to the puzzle that's often missing with him. The same goes for di Resta. But at least we don't have to hear about how Heinz-Harald Frentzen is just as fast as Michael Schumacher anymore. Now that was one overrated (under performing) mope, right there.
    "Every generation's memory is exactly as long as its own experience." --John Kenneth Galbraith

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