Page 8 of 8 FirstFirst ... 678
Results 71 to 78 of 78
  1. #71
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    18,921
    Like
    0
    Liked 8 Times in 6 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by markabilly


    Now one might think that is just me being crazy and forgetting to wear my tin hat, and is no more likely than having a team mate deliberately crash out to give another team mate a victory.....no way, you say....


    Sure.....
    You've been hitting that Kool Aid again, I see!!
    When in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout

  2. #72
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    6,084
    Like
    0
    Liked 15 Times in 15 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
    This incident had nothing to do with parity. Team orders were given to ensure both cars finished 1 and 2 on the podium, possibly with the knowledge that nobody was in a position to challenge the Red Bull cars.

    Please don't try to twist this whole issue into "...he should get the hell out of RBR"

    Try to get some logic and sense of relevance into this particular issue.

    Also, I do resent that you refer to Webber as stupid. The guy has more ability than you could ever dream of, not to mention money in the bank. If you want to start to insult F1 drivers, then you are stooping lower than I thought anyone here could.
    Actually I must admit that, THE SAME AS many armchair fans, I had a constant habit not giving the drivers enough respect...used to call Webber the chopper, because he had this habit of chopping other drivers and sticking it in when it really don't belong there (I have to keep telling donKey the same thing when he is with his goat :rolleyes

    ...then I got to take that ride in the F-1 car in Austin, courtesy of the Doc.


    Well, all I can say is, I am amazed that any of these guys manage to drive as well as they do. Before I thought it was tough, but it drove the point home, even though our speed was on the level of a slow warm up lap.

    They all now get much more of my respect as a result-to the point where I find it pretty much impossible to say anything negative about any of their abilities or what a driver did.......no matter how stupid some their moves on the track may look on television in slow motion after an incident.
    Only the dead know the end of war. Plato:beer:

  3. #73
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    6,084
    Like
    0
    Liked 15 Times in 15 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
    You've been hitting that Kool Aid again, I see!!
    Yes, I have dun backslided... ...dont help

    in the morning, I wake up sober, but F1 is still F1
    Only the dead know the end of war. Plato:beer:

  4. #74
    Senior Donkey donKey jote's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Hannibal's ancient Arse
    Posts
    11,230
    Like
    402
    Liked 177 Times in 122 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by markabilly
    (I have to keep telling donKey the same thing when he is with his goat :rolleyes
    not a nice way to talk about your missus... no wonder she left you and ran off with Alca-Kitzler ailor:
    United in diversity !!!

  5. #75
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    927
    Like
    4
    Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by dilbags
    Ok I don't know what race you guys where watching but the one i saw went like this:

    Webber had a +5 second gap between him and seb in the 41st lap. This gap had been rising for a good while. It would've been at this stage that horner would've said something like this "ok seb, webber has got a 5 second gap on ya, well get both of ya to turn down your engines and cruise it home like this, come in for new tyres next lap, mark you the lap after".

    So Seb pits with webber more than five seconds up the road and gets the softs on. so seb is now a pitstop and 5 seconds behind webber.

    Webber then pits the next lap (lap 43) for a set of mediums. the pit stop goes well (about same time as Sebs stop). As webber is rejoining the race after his pit stop he catches sight of Seb about 1-2 seconds before turn 1 on lap 44. he defends valiantly as a mad man (seb) is making all kinds of rash overtaking manouvers on corners that don't usually see much over taking. after nearly half a lap webbers back off to preserve his car's position in the race and seb overtakes him.

    It is clear to me that seb didn't like the team orders and seen the red mist, he would've been racing like a madman on cold tyres (he was on his outlap, this would've been extremely foolish) to make up OVER 5 SECONDS in 1 lap on webber. for this to happen webber would've had to have already been told to turn down his engine as the race was his.

    webber would've never seen him coming and wouldn't have known that vettel was attacking him until seb actually did on turn 1 of lap 44. before then the last time webber seen seb in his mirrors was on lap 42, more than five seconds back down the road.

    It is fairly easy to see how much Seb was in the wrong once you analyze in detail how the events unfolded, instead of guessing that "webber would've seen seb coming" and therefore it is all mark's fault. for me seb's faults in the race where:
    Telling RBR control to "get mark out of the way he's too slow" when they where clearly on different strategies.
    Ignoring team orders
    Doing a lightning fast outlap on cold tyres after his last pitstop (this is a biggy for me).
    Attacking his team mate in a dangerous manner on corners that don't usually see overtaking (at stages either of their cars where in the marbles)

    THISSSSS

    I am amazed so many people can't see it! AND to add to it, Seb should never have been pitted before Webber. Mark was ahead on track and as such should have been pitted first. The only reason that Seb pitted first was to cover off Hamilton who pitted the lap before. Had they pitted Mark first, as was his right, then Hamilton would have got ahead and Seb would be battling to get past Hamilton to get second place back. Mark would have been 7-9 seconds ahead at that stage. Game over.

    Why did Seb win?

    He received an unfair pit advantage over Webber.... and then, when asked to switch off, he said nothing and pounced on Webber who was in economy mode. Did Webber switch on again? Apparently not. He did not have the fuel available to 'race' home or go hard against Seb. He was mugged. Pure and simple.

    Silverstone '11 the team advised Webber that it was Seb's race and his immediate response was to tell them to bugger themselves, he was going for it. Had Seb said the same thing to the team in this scenario and taken the second pit stop, he would need to have passed Hamilton then found Webber some seconds up the road for the win. If he did that, then kudos to him. The man. The racer. What he did was say nothing and then pounce on a team-made who had been advised to save fuel and tyres, bring the car home.

    And after all this Seb now says "Mark didn't deserve it." Well bugger me! You arrogant twat.
    Ayrton Senna, Legend. R.I.P.

    \"If you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver. Because we are competing. We are competing to win. And the main motivation to all of us is to compete for a victory. It is not to come third, fourth, fifth or sixth. I race to win\".

  6. #76
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    927
    Like
    4
    Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster
    Except that the pitstops were two laps apart and 2.5 seconds a lap on new vs old tires is pretty much the default setting on Pirelli's clown tires, especially since Vettel was o n the softer, hence faster compound.
    Meanwhile track position should have seen Webber pit first anyway. Lead car and all. Seb was only pitted first so they could hold off Hamilton. Seb then used this unfair advantage to pounce on Webber who had already shut down for the day.
    Ayrton Senna, Legend. R.I.P.

    \"If you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver. Because we are competing. We are competing to win. And the main motivation to all of us is to compete for a victory. It is not to come third, fourth, fifth or sixth. I race to win\".

  7. #77
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    927
    Like
    4
    Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by zako85
    It would be interesting to watch Chinese GP. Webber races well when he is pissed off.
    And even better when he has fuel.....
    Ayrton Senna, Legend. R.I.P.

    \"If you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver. Because we are competing. We are competing to win. And the main motivation to all of us is to compete for a victory. It is not to come third, fourth, fifth or sixth. I race to win\".

  8. #78
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    6,084
    Like
    0
    Liked 15 Times in 15 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Ari
    And even better when he has fuel.....
    and four wheels.....
    Only the dead know the end of war. Plato:beer:

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •