Donkey of Malaysia

[henners88]

It's not about person management, it's about plausibility. Late last year, when RB asked Mark to help Vettel he most of the times complied and when he didn't they called him into the pits at 'convenient' times. Those team orders were believable and although grudgingly Mark complied, but asking someone, who won the title less than half a year ago by a mere 3 points to give away 7 points for no good reason in only the second race of the year is not believable. To use your football analogy: If you ask your star striker to pass to the offensive midfielder instead of going for paydirt if he is free in front of the goal won't get you much compliance, but a rather bewildered look from said striker.
Asking a competetive racing driver to forfeit a chance for a win is like ordering a Serbian bean soup in a Croatian restaurant - you can try, but don't expect a favourable result.

If Red Bull had asked Webber to turn his engine down and allow Seb past, it would have sent the wrong message to Mark and the fans watching. He had earned that victory on merit and his previous championship finishing positions shouldn't come in to it IMO. There may be an outside chance this season that Vettel will hit an unlucky spell and its Mark who needs those extra points. With the history these guys have together Red Bull knew it wouldn't be a clean fight should one want to pass the other. Vettel needs to take responsibility for his actions much like Mark should and has in the past.

[dj_bytedisaster]

If Red Bull had asked Webber to turn his engine down and allow Seb past, it would have sent the wrong message to Mark and the fans watching. He had earned that victory on merit and his previous championship finishing positions shouldn't come in to it IMO. There may be an outside chance this season that Vettel will hit an unlucky spell and its Mark who needs those extra points. With the history these guys have together Red Bull knew it wouldn't be a clean fight should one want to pass the other. Vettel needs to take responsibility for his actions much like Mark should and has in the past.

Sorry, but on that we disagree. Mark was never more than 4 or 5 seconds ahead of Seb and most of that time was from Seb going into the pits one or two laps too early for the first stop (a call made by the team incidentally). Before the last stop Mark was 4 seconds ahead, both drivers in conserve tires mode. Seb was called in 2 laps before Mark to cover Hamilton. He went out guns blazing and when Mark came out of the pits they were basically nose-to-tail, so Vettel had vaporized those 4 seconds. This early in the season, they should have allowed them to go for a fight instead of fixing the result right there.
And as for 'merit'. In the Red Bull camp there is one guy who collected two poles in as many races and even when the car ate tires like hot cakes in Melbourne made it to the podium and it wasn't Mark. I'd say the two of them were pretty evenly matched at Malaysia, but Mark didn't quite deliver any performance that would merit preferring to give the points to the guy who failed to bring in the title for four years over the guy who did for three years on the trot.
Ferrari will shaft Massa for any additional point they can gain for Fernando and this year's Ferrari is much more competetive than last year's edition, so RB can't afford to give Mark any freebie points, because I'd be willing to bet a sizeable amount of money that in the end it will be Vettel again with the bigger points haul. In fact I would, if the odds weren't that rotten for a 4th title...

[henners88]

Sorry, but on that we disagree.

Fair enough we can agree to disagree.

I've run out of interest with this discussion today. Apologies for not responding more in depth, but I have nothing more to add and my opinion is unchanged.

[zako85]

I find the idea that Webber dominanted the race quite absurd. When he came out of pits, Vettel was immediately behind him. It this point a position change was pretty much certain as Webber was at a disadvantage with colder tires.

I also find the idea that team orders should not be given early in the year also absurd. The team orders should not be given early in the year only when the both drivers still have a shot at winning the championship. Does anyone still believe that Webber is a championship material? If the team wanted to be please the fans, there should have been no orders at all. If the team wanted maximize the chance to win the WDC, Mark should have been given the order to let Vettel through. But the order that the team actually gave was bizzare. Can you imagine Ferrari giving order to Schumacher to say behind Barrichello early in season. This is simply absurd. Horner will have some explaining to do to his bosses. I honestly think this may be the last year we're seeing Webber at RBR.

[The Black Knight]

I very much agreed with everything in this article about Vettel. I don't agree with the Mercedes bit as Hamilton wants to win by himself but the rest I agree with.

The Smiling Assassin | The Buxton Blog

[Donney]

I think the GP has a whole drove of Donkeys:

Alonso for risking the whole race waiting a couple of laps to pit and change the front wing, although as he said it is easier to make a decision after the events.

Force India for the wheel nuts fiasco.

Hamilton for going back "home"

Red Bull for their excellent team spirit and anger management program

Mercedes for not trusting themselves and not wanting to risk two places in the top 5.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I very much agreed with everything in this article about Vettel. I don't agree with the Mercedes bit as Hamilton wants to win by himself but the rest I agree with.

The Smiling Assassin | The Buxton Blog

LOL, Brilliant article. Unfortunately it's a minority view. Fact of the matter is that out of the last 13 championships, 8 have been won by 'evil Germans' and many people are po'ed about that. Had Barichello and Massa continued to collect titles after Senna, we might have had a Brazilian hate-fest by now or would Jenson and Lewis have collected title after title, people would be bashing anyone with a union jack next to his name.

[Knock-on]

LOL, Brilliant article. Unfortunately it's a minority view. Fact of the matter is that out of the last 13 championships, 8 have been won by 'evil Germans' and many people are po'ed about that. Had Barichello and Massa continued to collect titles after Senna, we might have had a Brazilian hate-fest by now or would Jenson and Lewis have collected title after title, people would be bashing anyone with a union jack next to his name.

Don't agree with this at all.

People didn't like Schumy because of his on track behaviour. Some don't like Alonso for his behaviour at McLaren. Some dislike Lewis because he raced for McLaren and made some stupid mistakes in his early career. Some don't like Kimi because he's not very talkative etc etc. Nothing to do with Nationality.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Alonso for risking the whole race waiting a couple of laps to pit and change the front wing, although as he said it is easier to make a decision after the events.

The team made that decision, not Fernando. But yes, hindsight is 20/20

[rjbetty]

I very much agreed with everything in this article about Vettel. I don't agree with the Mercedes bit as Hamilton wants to win by himself but the rest I agree with.

The Smiling Assassin | The Buxton Blog

That was brilliant Black Knight - Thanks for posting it!