Rally Discussion and Bar Talk Thread

[Mirek]

Just replying the question. It has been done, it was expensive and it was not safe. But yeah, maybe they could do it better today? Not sure if it would be cheaper.

Of course it would be completely different - even at that time if safety was the priority.

Space-frame allows to create much safer and overall better design than anything production based because the production base comes with a lot of compromises made for passenger space, price, production process, different safety modus operandi etc. Space-frame can be designed 100% for the purpose it serves, i.e. it takes no handicaps from serial production. And it can be also cheaper - for sure. The reason why the cars were expensive was not in using space-frame.

[giu canbera]

but its not interesting for manufacturers, right?
from what I've read Ford-Chevy-Toyota are pretty satisfied with "their bubbles" in Nascar.
But Murica is a weird place... I know

[Mirek]

Frankly I don't see a reason why manufacturers would want to block such idea if FIA ever allowed it.

For manufacturer it's always good when it doesn't need to change anything in serial production because of marketing activities like rallying, i.e. if the rally car is 0% based on production model it's only good for them.

[AnttiL]

But the cars need to look like road models, right? Other than that, are there really any parts that are the same on a road car and a current WRC car other than small details like lights and door handles?

[giu canbera]

tbh It'd be pretty rad if my Fiesta had these '17 huge rear wings and all those aero parts. I love those things. I really wouldnt care if people on the streets think "Oh, this is ridiculous" haha I just want a WRC car haha 4wd please

[Rallyper]

Frankly I don't see a reason why manufacturers would want to block such idea if FIA ever allowed it.

For manufacturer it's always good when it doesn't need to change anything in serial production because of marketing activities like rallying, i.e. if the rally car is 0% based on production model it's only good for them.

I hope FIA never comes up with such proposition. I´d rather go back to step one. More standard productionlike and less parts i Kevlar, however big wing and big soundlevel always attract all kinds of people no matter power.

Lets see what elecrifying will give (hope not, but a development hard to stop I think)

[pantealex]

But the cars need to look like road models, right? Other than that, are there really any parts that are the same on a road car and a current WRC car other than small details like lights and door handles?

Roof and tailgate probably.
and many things under body panels (wheel base is same as production model, so there is many parts which are mandatory by rules)

[Mirek]

I hope FIA never comes up with such proposition. I´d rather go back to step one. More standard productionlike and less parts i Kevlar, however big wing and big soundlevel always attract all kinds of people no matter power.

Lets see what elecrifying will give (hope not, but a development hard to stop I think)

Per, the world changed from 1990'. The car industry is very different today than it used to be. Just get used to it. It won't get back because some people have nice memories.

Frankly - why is it so much "worse" to build the car as a space-frame purpose built unit which from outside looks like a serial one than to build a purpose-built car limited by serial bodyshell when the car also has very little to do with the serial one? I don't see any benefit for anyone.

[Rallyper]

I threw in a torch! Admit that. However we talk a sport we all love. No matter how much the world changed, why should the sport we all love change radically? We all love competition. And competition can be made with much more less special tuning, building and components in kevlar and titanium.

[Mrpengski]

Roof and tailgate probably.
and many things under body panels (wheel base is same as production model, so there is many parts which are mandatory by rules)

Door handles, yes. None of the current WRC cars have lights from the standard car, except maybe just the tail light lenses in some cases.

Roof as part of bodyshell is standard, with holes cut into it obviously. Bonnet and tail gate are standard parts modified in a similar manner. Other than that, there should not be a single, standard OEM part on these cars. I guess some teams use/used the standard wiper stalk. The wheelbase is defined by the standard car, but there is a tolerance, so will not be the same as standard in the end. There is absolutely no OEM part between the bodyshell and the ground.

Here is my view on space frame "silhouette cars":
- To make it as safe or safer than standard bodyshell, no problem.
- To make it lighter, somewhat challenging.
- To make it more cost effective, probably not possible.

The biggest problem is restrictions on various reference points and how far away they can move from standard points. At this point, we might as well keep the standard bodyshell, since it does a pretty good job anyway. And even in recent memory, committed manufacturers can and will still do a special run of their road cars. Aside from bigger and stronger engine, no one buying the road cars would even notice any difference, but if the bodyshell was tweaked slightly to suit the design of the race car better, then that's a competitive advantage gained. Of course, that's nothing compared to the "homologation specialle" of days gone by, but I think it's cool that some still go the distance.