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  1. #1341
    Senior Member NickRally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman racer View Post
    If nothing else, the cars will always be faster/better than everything else. It's a designated class to be the best.



    F1 is a staple motorsport series, and transcends the boundary of hardened motorsport fans.



    The vast majority are not going to choose WRC over F1. Relative to F1, it's less practical to follow, less historical and cultural significance. A promoter may improve the state of rallies and the series overall. But as far as taking over the popularity of F1, it'll merely be the equivalent a a hamster in a wheel.

    Going back to the first question. The good news is that F1 is not the pinnacle of motorsport, it's the pinnacle of car racing, and one of two pinnacles of 4 wheel motorsport. There's two core "motorsports", tarmac track and off-road. Tarmac track is supposed to replicate driving on public roads, and everything falls in line under F1.

    WRC is not held on a tarmac track, and is the pinnacle of off-road motorsport. It's not better or worse than F1, but a different discipline. It's equal as a premier motorsport competition.

    Idk how everyone else will react to this, but that's how I see it. I take my views of motorsport pretty seriously as a fan. I look forward to any derision of my opinion.
    Journeyman racer, if you don’t mind me asking, how old are you? The reason I am asking is that you were probably not there in 1986 – WRC displaced F1 from the so called pinnacle of motorsport, I know as I was there. It didn’t last long, but only because F1 had Mr Ecclestone, who is the real reason F1 today is what it is. If he fancied WRC, or any other form of motorsport for that matter, then that is what would have been the “pinnacle” today.

    I know people will jump saying the 1986 story couldn’t have and didn’t last long due to the fatalities, so change was needed – that is correct, but not the way the WRC was dealt with, i.e. banning the cars that made it great. When in the 1960’s, the fatalities in F1 were coming every other week, they didn’t ban the cars and turned to “production” models, they improved the safety of the cars that made F1 special. It could have happened in WRC, but there was no one to defend its corner.

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  3. #1342
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonnybobiche View Post
    would any normal person prefer F1 to WRC anymore?
    Its format suits casual spectating better. If you go on location, just go to the circuit and spend the afternoon there, you're home for the evening. If you choose to watch it on TV, just tune in on a Sunday afternoon, it takes only a couple of hours to see the podium. Meanwhile, rallying takes more effort. You need to follow three days of competitive action and go to the woods and switch stages to see the cars more than once. For the casual spectator the power stage might be enough, but it could be boring when usually the positions are already decided. In this sense, F1 is closer to big sports like soccer or ice hockey. Better for casual spectating.

    But I might be the wrong person to answer, I hardly follow any other sports than rallying.
    Last edited by AnttiL; 13th June 2018 at 15:24.

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  5. #1343
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    But take a sport like baseball, for example, which consists of 3hr+ games played each day between the same two teams in a best-of-three series, or in the postseason when it's best-of-five or even best-of-seven games. Tens of millions of people watch the MLB World Series every year, and that can easily go to a full 7 games, each game at least 3 hours, so you're talking 21+ hours of baseball in a week or two in order to determine an overall winner.

    Now, granted, there's more of a sense of finality to each game as it ends that same day, but it's the series results that count. Anyway, all I'm saying is that if people are willing to watch 3 hours of baseball every day for 3 days, and then do it again the next week, and again, and again, for months and months, it can't be the case that people simply don't have attention spans anymore.

    Whenever the "intelligent" people who are in charge of motorsports lament that kids these days with their ipods and internet just don't have the attention span to watch a long race, I think they're making excuses for their stupid boring series that they regulated to death. If attention spans were the problem, wouldn't rallycross be the most popular form of motorsport ever? Who watches rallycross?

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  7. #1344
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonnybobiche View Post
    Whenever the "intelligent" people who are in charge of motorsports lament that kids these days with their ipods and internet just don't have the attention span to watch a long race, I think they're making excuses for their stupid boring series that they regulated to death. If attention spans were the problem, wouldn't rallycross be the most popular form of motorsport ever? Who watches rallycross?
    You make a good point. The series bosses, (and I especially mean the WRC) try and justify their decisions, yet the evidence doesn't necessarily support it.

    This weekend sees probably the biggest motorsport event of the whole year; and it's not 2 hours, nor 3, 4, 5 or 6 hours. It's twice round the clock = 24 Hours. Similarly, last month saw another massive 24 Hour race at the Nurburgring; next month sees another one at Spa. We also have extremely popular 12 Hour races at Sebring, Bathurst, etc Even the Dakar, which is 2 weeks long is pretty popular.

    I'd argue that the WRC doesn't have one stand-out event; and could do with maybe 1 or 2 such events, i;e make the Monte a proper 'Event', different from the other WRC events; for example, say run it from Tuesday - Friday night.
    WRC: On the long way to Recovery............
    Is there a better sound than that of Porsche engined Flat-6 ???

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  9. #1345
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickRally View Post
    ... The reason I am asking is that you were probably not there in 1986 – WRC displaced F1 from the so called pinnacle of motorsport ...
    WRC has never displaced F1 as the pinnacle of motorsport. Not in 1986 with Group B. Not in 1995 with Colin McRae. Never. And it never will.
    Never do anything you wouldn't want to explain to a paramedic.

  10. #1346
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyRAC View Post
    You make a good point. The series bosses, (and I especially mean the WRC) try and justify their decisions, yet the evidence doesn't necessarily support it.

    This weekend sees probably the biggest motorsport event of the whole year; and it's not 2 hours, nor 3, 4, 5 or 6 hours. It's twice round the clock = 24 Hours. Similarly, last month saw another massive 24 Hour race at the Nurburgring; next month sees another one at Spa. We also have extremely popular 12 Hour races at Sebring, Bathurst, etc Even the Dakar, which is 2 weeks long is pretty popular.

    I'd argue that the WRC doesn't have one stand-out event; and could do with maybe 1 or 2 such events, i;e make the Monte a proper 'Event', different from the other WRC events; for example, say run it from Tuesday - Friday night.
    My impression (because I wasn't following it then) was that this used to be Safari.

  11. #1347
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonnybobiche View Post
    My impression (because I wasn't following it then) was that this used to be Safari.
    No, quite contrary to that, Safari was more of a specialist event with not even all teams and drivers taking part, instead using specialist drivers who would not then do the rest of the rounds at all (like Waldegård in 1990 or Ian Duncan). Maybe the car manufacturers felt like it was an important event to show off for car endurance, but us fans were more interested in fights for seconds (we didn't do timing in tenths back then).

    I would say Monte and RAC, maybe also 1000 Lakes and Portugal had a special status already in the 80's 90's which made up a good entry list and good media coverage. And I think those events have still held up their status, despite name changes and route shrinks.

    Meanwhile, I never really found appreciation for the 24h track races or rally raids in my young days when I followed motorsports more vastly, but again, maybe that's just me.

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  13. #1348
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonnybobiche View Post
    But take a sport like baseball, for example, which consists of 3hr+ games played each day between the same two teams in a best-of-three series, or in the postseason when it's best-of-five or even best-of-seven games. Tens of millions of people watch the MLB World Series every year, and that can easily go to a full 7 games, each game at least 3 hours, so you're talking 21+ hours of baseball in a week or two in order to determine an overall winner.

    Now, granted, there's more of a sense of finality to each game as it ends that same day, but it's the series results that count. Anyway, all I'm saying is that if people are willing to watch 3 hours of baseball every day for 3 days, and then do it again the next week, and again, and again, for months and months, it can't be the case that people simply don't have attention spans anymore.
    It's not a familiar concept to me, but I know the ice hockey and soccer playoffs and final games are the most popular sport events around here, and people love the tension that builds up during the tournament and every match could end their favourite team's tournament, kind of like a rally driver could end their rally on any stage. But still, that's only a couple of hours of intense following in a day. Watching a soccer game equals time wise to watching two stages of All Live coverage.

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  15. #1349
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyRAC View Post

    I'd argue that the WRC doesn't have one stand-out event; and could do with maybe 1 or 2 such events, i;e make the Monte a proper 'Event', different from the other WRC events; for example, say run it from Tuesday - Friday night.
    Why would removing weekend driving make it a "proper" "event"?

  16. #1350
    Senior Member NickRally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    I would say Monte and RAC, maybe also 1000 Lakes and Portugal had a special status already in the 80's 90's which made up a good entry list and good media coverage.
    I would agree with this.

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