Rally Discussion and Bar Talk Thread

[Rallyewerk]

You guys follow off road rallys, too, or just gravel?

[A FONDO]

some of us

[trickydicky]

It's a sad time for WRC. The problem with WRC to me isn't the lack of manufacturers, it's the lack of truly great drivers.

I agree that the lack of truly great drivers is a bit of an issue, but the problem with the WRC is that it has killed itself on every level since about 1995, finally firing the killer bullet in 1997. Where do you start. Rallying was awesome, awesome cars in awesome locations doing awesome things. Now you have crap rallies, repeating the same stages over and over again to a grand total of about 300km, horrible, truly horrific ugly little wheezy cars that bare no relation to anything anyone can or would want to buy being driven by nobodies. You have a 'WRC' that had lost the Monte, and no longer has Corsica, the Safari, San Remo, the RAC, the proper Portugal. Short rally's, long rally's, sprints, enduros. Now they are all just sprints. As to what car fits into what class, that is a mystery too.

The obsession with manufacturers, TV time and David Richards are what killed it. In my opinion you don't need any manufacturers per se, people will always want to take part and will always fins something to drive. Works teams follow when manufacturers realize the value of being seen by a million or so road side fans. I'd ban 4wd and allow something similar to a Group 4/A/N hybrid of modification rules and have a standard production class underneath where its cheap to turn up. Then stand by and watch the next generation of French, Finnish and Swedish drivers come through. There are no drivers because nobody can afford a car! Then you bring back the classic events, in their classic forms and we are back to being somewhere again!!!

[BDunnell]

The problem with WRC to me isn't the lack of manufacturers, it's the lack of truly great drivers (Østberg, Novikov, Latvala, Hirvonen... - I see no future in them).

I agree completely. They're all decent enough drivers, but I can't get excited about any of them and can't understand how anybody else can either. Because of that, the admiration I ought to feel for Loeb and Ogier is diminished, because what do they have to beat? Coupled with the lack of stature of British rallying, my enthusiasm for the sport really is close to being at an end, and my hopes for its recovery all but non-existent.

[AndyRAC]

People say that the sport had to move with the times; Endurance is no longer fashionable.

Explain that to the organisers of Sebring 12 Hours, Le Mans 24 Hours, Nurburgring 24 Hours, Spa 24 Hours, Petit Le Mans, etc all get massive crowds, and Manufacturer support.

WRC went down the wrong path with the identikit events....but we've been saying that for too long now. The event organisers don't really want to change.

[BDunnell]

The event organisers don't really want to change.

Worse, the manufacturers and, now, the promoter don't want it to change. It's an entirely counter-intuitive attitude. And through it all the FIA continues to show little outward ability to make things better.

[stefanvv]

Lets be realistic, the romantic Rally times were long ago. But there is small progress last and this year with longer Rallies than recent years, that's good. As for the drivers there are some young talanted at the moment, but I don't see any of them beating Ogier this year for the title. But may be in some Rallies.... Probably only Latvala can do it with speed anyway

[Alex Langheck]

I do remember reading recently that apart from Loeb & Ogier – the rest weren’t up to it as World class drivers. The problem is that too many in the sport are blinkered, and can’t see it from an outsiders viewpoint. Of the FIA World series – only the WTCC has less talent.

[trickydicky]

I could live with the shorter rallies if they didn't repeat the stages so much and the cars were good, and likewise I could live with the cars if the rallies were good, but as it stands there is not much to like. Loeb's stats are an irrelavance to me. He dominated after all the greats of the turn of the century either retired or passed away and has never had to deal with local specialists, because they don't exist anymore, or endurance events, because they don't either. Winning in Finland against Hirvonen and Latvala is one thing, winning in Finland against Mikkola, Alen, Kankunnen, Salonen, Vatanen, Airrikala, Blomqvist and the like, like anyone had to in the 80's, is something else entirely. Winning a tarmac rally against a load of gravel specialists and rich kids is one thing, beating Auriol, Saby, Loubet, Delecour, Bugalski, Chatriot, Ragnotti, Beguin, Biasion, Cunico, Cerrato and whoever else, or before that Munari, Nicolas, Therier, Andruet and Darniche is again a different game. And that's before we talk about the Safari. I'm not saying Loeb wasn't good, and wouldn't have done well against previous era's drivers, just that he was never tested.

[Barreis]

Would cordoba wrc had better results if somebody like C.McRae drove it at that time?!