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Thread: Citroen WRT

  1. #1191
    Senior Member racerx1979's Avatar
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    The team will take credit... Let's hope they all work as a team as opposed to Team Meeke...

  2. #1192
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    Quote Originally Posted by racerx1979 View Post
    The team will take credit... Let's hope they all work as a team as opposed to Team Meeke...
    Team effort.. with a team that is now maybe listening.

  3. #1193
    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrc2017 View Post
    so.. loeb happy with meeke setup. who is going to take credit for turning this around?
    The C3 gravel improvement was already noticed in Catalunya and Australia. Since Christophe Besse arrival, in August, the team has managed to understand how to improve the car; till then they were all, including Meeke, clueless.
    Rally addict since 1982

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    The C3 gravel improvement was already noticed in Catalunya and Australia. Since Christophe Besse arrival, in August, the team has managed to understand how to improve the car; till then they were all, including Meeke, clueless.
    a driver can only say what the feels. its upto the boffins to sort it

  5. Likes: dimviii (27th February 2018)
  6. #1195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    The C3 gravel improvement was already noticed in Catalunya and Australia. Since Christophe Besse arrival, in August, the team has managed to understand how to improve the car; till then they were all, including Meeke, clueless.
    Was it not reported that after Mikelsen had driven the car changes were made, ones that Kris had been asking for for a while.
    Either way, let's just hope the changes can bring a significant improvement in results so that Citroen decides to continue next year, and let alone give Meeke another year but hopefully Breen a full season.

  7. #1196
    Senior Member er88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    The C3 gravel improvement was already noticed in Catalunya and Australia. Since Christophe Besse arrival, in August, the team has managed to understand how to improve the car; till then they were all, including Meeke, clueless.
    Not totally true. There are facts out in the open and it's not difficult to see why things went wrong, unless you're an ostrich.

    It's been admitted by Matton on many occasions that the risks the team took in engineering and development backfired. He held his hands up. You then had quotes from the new tech chief Besse, saying that individuals within the team found it difficult to admit to their mistakes (some have now left or been sacked), until the penny finally dropped after Mikkelsen and then Loeb said the exact same things about the car as the regular drivers. Changes were only then implemented which the regular drivers had been pushing for for months prior.

    After the midpoint of last season, certain Citroen staff "moved on", and the man who designed and penned the car was replaced. Meeke's position was also strengthened (despite a spate of crashes), and with the team all on the same page and working together properly, Citroen have moved forward and the development has been good. Besse has been a great appointment as technical director and the improvements are there to seen. Loeb's recent interview further emphasises that (the article on the WRC website. Not the interview just uploaded on the WRC YouTube channel, where Loeb talks about the difficulties of the car before the changes in the second half of last season).

    Looking at all that, it seems Citroen ballsed up not taking the testing feedback on-board earlier, which either suggests arrogance and stubbornness (Besse's quotes suggest that could've been the case), or a lack of trust in Meeke, Breen and Lefebrve's feedback on the car. Or maybe a bit of both? However if they didn't trust the feedback from those drivers from the start, they should've let other drivers help test and develop the car in 2016. Yet we know that wasn't the case, as despite Meeke saying he wanted Loeb or another experienced driver to test the car, nobody did (until Loeb in 2017). Why not? Ask Matton.

    You look at VW testing this Polo R5, they have Depping, Tiedemand, Gronholm and now Solberg all in the car. Vastly different drivers all with different experience, but you can bet all their individual feedback is being analysed and taken on-board properly, with changes and tweaks made accordingly. Citroen could've tapped into drivers like Loeb and Carlos Sainz's knowledge and experience in 2016, and it was a huge oversight not doing so. Instead of being proactive, the team were reactive to bad results which meant Loeb only tested the car in August/September of 2017 (when it should have been August 2016). If Loeb tested the car before 2017, he would've said the same things about it as he did almost a year later, and the same things as Meeke, Breen, Lefebrve and Mikkelsen all said before him.
    So that's where you're wrong about Meeke and the other drivers being clueless, they all new the areas which needed improved. That's just a fact.

    But the main thing is, since Besse's appointment and the realisation from within the team that things needed changed on the car, we now have a more competitive and drivable car on most terrains. Further improvements are in the offing too in Argentina, which will hopefully help increase performance further. Better late than never, and at least Citroen eventually realised their mistakes and took action with changes within the team.

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  8. Likes: AnttiL (27th February 2018),dimviii (27th February 2018),Eli (27th February 2018),Micke_VOC (27th February 2018),Norm75 (27th February 2018),sindroms (28th February 2018),skarderud (28th February 2018),Vulture (28th February 2018)
  9. #1197
    Senior Member Sulland's Avatar
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    The hard part for any manufacurer in racing is to make a vehicle that is good out of the box, easy to change to different drivingstyles, and easy to finetune to the individual liking.

    For a racecar it is easier than for a rallycar, since it will face more surfaces and weather conditions. Some like them basically to be driven like a backwheel driven, and some like a frontwheel driven car, and som like them quite neutral.

    To manage to get a tick in all the boxes (and then some) is not an easy piece of engineering!!
    But as said elsewhere, to have the car tested by drivers with many drivingstyles, should be a given. Else you can end up with a car that qould be extremely quick in the hands of a specific style, amd the rest have to adapt to the car, and not vice versa.

    Both Subaru and Citroen have made this mistake. Skoda/VW teat a lot with many, and usually wins. MSport uses the commercial Microsoft method; push an ok basecar out quickly to as many customers as possible, adjust it after many reports on the same issue, or if you are not competitive at all!
    www.parcferme.no

  10. Likes: er88 (28th February 2018)
  11. #1198
    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by er88 View Post
    Looking at all that, it seems Citroen ballsed up not taking the testing feedback on-board earlier, which either suggests arrogance and stubbornness (Besse's quotes suggest that could've been the case), or a lack of trust in Meeke, Breen and Lefebrve's feedback on the car. Or maybe a bit of both? which needed improved.
    During the 9 months they took to test the car, all drivers showed delighted and hopeful on the car success. We only start to hear complains after the first outings (MC and Sweden); that’s why I believe the all team, including the drivers, were genuinely surprised by the car issues.

    There’s no doubt the tech staff has failed to deliver a proper car, but no one can say for sure it was due to a lack of trust between engineers and drivers, like Brit journos were eager to suggest in order to protect Meeke.

    Despite all the fuss, the team is now managing to fix the car and give their drivers a fine chance to shine. Fingers crossed.
    Last edited by Rally Power; 27th February 2018 at 19:40.
    Rally addict since 1982

  12. #1199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    During the 9 months they took to test the car, all drivers showed delighted and hopeful on the car success. We only start to hear complains after the first outings (MC and Sweden); that’s why I believe the all team, including the drivers, were genuinely surprised by the car issues.

    There’s no doubt the tech staff has failed to deliver a proper car, but no one can say for sure it was due to a lack of trust between engineers and drivers, like Brit journos were eager to suggest in order to protect Meeke.

    Despite all the fuss, the team is now managing to fix the car and give their drivers a fine chance to shine. Fingers crossed.
    I'm not sure I buy that, the drivers were hardly likely to come out and say the car was a pile of shit in public before it had ever turned a wheel in anger.
    I know we are all making some assumptions along the way but it can't be coincidental that after Mikkelsen and then Loeb both said it was crap in low traction conditions things happened. And it wasn't the drivers getting replaced.....

  13. Likes: er88 (28th February 2018),Mintexmemory (28th February 2018)
  14. #1200
    M-Sport WRC Champions Fast Eddie WRC's Avatar
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