Di Montezemolo hits out at Ecclestone...

[dj_bytedisaster]

Well, looks like Ferrari could still use a bit of an attitude adjustment. Looks like Mr. di Motezemolo hasn't quite finished his sour grapes yet: Montezemolo hits out at Ecclestone and Schumacher

The comments about Schumacher are nothing short of ridiculous. He lashes out that Schumacher hasn't helped Alonso. How ridiculous is that? Has the man somehow forgotten that Schumacher is no longer a Ferrari employee. Or did it escape his attention, that

a) Vettel would have won the title in 7th as well ?
b) he would have overtaken Schumacher even with a fight, as Schumacher was at least a second slower ?
c) that Schumacher may freely chose if he wants to help a good friend or an ex-employer?

Seriously. With all due respect to fernando's achievement and Ferraris massive catching-up over the year, but pathetic drivel like that is something I would expect from Mateschitz or Dr. Marko. It just makes them look silly, really. Had he lashed out at Torro Rosso - now that would have been a justified grievance, but demanding loyalty from a driver, who is running for a rival outfit is just silly.

[Bagwan]

Well, looks like Ferrari could still use a bit of an attitude adjustment. Looks like Mr. di Motezemolo hasn't quite finished his sour grapes yet: Montezemolo hits out at Ecclestone and Schumacher

The comments about Schumacher are nothing short of ridiculous. He lashes out that Schumacher hasn't helped Alonso. How ridiculous is that? Has the man somehow forgotten that Schumacher is no longer a Ferrari employee. Or did it escape his attention, that

a) Vettel would have won the title in 7th as well ?
b) he would have overtaken Schumacher even with a fight, as Schumacher was at least a second slower ?
c) that Schumacher may freely chose if he wants to help a good friend or an ex-employer?

Seriously. With all due respect to fernando's achievement and Ferraris massive catching-up over the year, but pathetic drivel like that is something I would expect from Mateschitz or Dr. Marko. It just makes them look silly, really. Had he lashed out at Torro Rosso - now that would have been a justified grievance, but demanding loyalty from a driver, who is running for a rival outfit is just silly.

Since he would have won with 7th , why would he deny his countryman , a guy in his last race in F1 , a chance at a better position .
There was still lots of time left , if Fernando had gotten to first , to think about gifting the position .

I took it as a slap in the face of Ferrari , as , I think Luca did , and that is simply because there was no fight in the shoe at all .
I remember Michael as a fighter , who would do all he could , even if his car was a second slower than the one behind .

Of course , they were hoping that he'd hold him up , and bring in the guys behind , or that Michael would defend a little too intensely , and take them both out , for sure .
What I hoped for was a clean defense , to add a little more texture to the final laps .

It was a damp squib .

He didn't need the help .
And , they are both racers , racing for position , or so I had hoped .

[dj_bytedisaster]

I understand all that, but still some things to consider:

a) I'm not so sure that Michael wanted his last real fight in F1 to be one he would lose pitifully anyways.
b) Although Montezemolo doesn't say it out loud, the only way a fighting Schumacher would have helped them, would be if he had pressured Vettel into an error or taken him out. The next guy behind was a Torro Rosso, so no way Vettel would have lost that 7th. It's that implication, which makes the whole thing look silly.

And Schumacher has never been a 'fighter at all costs'. He often settled for a position when he thought he couldn't gain much. That was the case here. He was massively slower and would've lost anyway, but stayed out of a useless fight. And Ferrari might spend a minute to remember how they did not defend much the 'man they feel so close to' against raging Tifosi, who thought it was blasphemy for him to return to F1 in a different team.

[pino]

Topic moved into a new thread...enjoy it :

[dj_bytedisaster]

While it might not have such a hard thing to get past him , all of us would put it in context , regarding the respective cars , so I doubt Michael would be too bothered about being shown up , so I'm so sure about "a)" .

As for "b)" , sure , Luca would see the chance for being tripped up by Michael go away , and would be saddened by it , as it's a part of the game . Team orders are legal , and so , I guess , is helping another team , even if you don't stand to benefit yours .

In a wet race there is every chance that Torro Rosso wouldn't make the end , or that it might have tripped into Vettel itself , had Sebastian been backed into it with a defending Michael .

It was one of the last straws that Ferrari could grasp , and Michael retired the position before retiring after the race .

All valid points, but giving away positions without much of a token fight that a driver feels unable to fight for is as old as F1 itself.
The sheer silliness od LdM's statement comes from the fact that he didn't mention the Torro Rosso's. We all have dissected the Vergne pass to a frame and it is clearly visible that Vergne goes out of his way to let Vettel pass. He doesn't even mention that a Ferrari customer gifted positions to their main rival, instead he whines about Schumacher not nerfing Vettel into the scenery.
A man of his experience should have enough cojones to admit that it was Ferrari who let Alonso down by building a second-rate car, not Schumacher by letting Vettel pass in a move that didn't even change the chapionship situation in hindsight. I simply think that smacks of 'sore loser', rather than a justified complaint.

[Bagwan]

All valid points, but giving away positions without much of a token fight that a driver feels unable to fight for is as old as F1 itself.
The sheer silliness od LdM's statement comes from the fact that he didn't mention the Torro Rosso's. We all have dissected the Vergne pass to a frame and it is clearly visible that Vergne goes out of his way to let Vettel pass. He doesn't even mention that a Ferrari customer gifted positions to their main rival, instead he whines about Schumacher not nerfing Vettel into the scenery.
A man of his experience should have enough cojones to admit that it was Ferrari who let Alonso down by building a second-rate car, not Schumacher by letting Vettel pass in a move that didn't even change the chapionship situation in hindsight. I simply think that smacks of 'sore loser', rather than a justified complaint.

Wait now , you're saying that Luca had a Torro Rosso to complain about and didn't , and you're slagging him for it ?
One man owns two teams , and the fact that there is a Ferrari engine in one is at least partly to differentiate between the two platforms , to counter the idea of collusion between teams in design .
Customer teams are not allowed , but it seems collusion between teams on track is .

The Torro Rosso moved over for it's sister team .
And , it should be obvious from the lack of response towards Torro Rosso , that Luca firstly expected the collusion , and secondly accepts it as a part of the battle , even though it might not be fair .

He didn't whine about "Schumacher not nerfing Vettel into the scenery" . Characterizing it as such doesn't strengthen your argument .

I would think you and others would merely fire barbs for even bringing it up that the sister team was in collusion .
He did speak liberally about how Fernando was up to the task but the machine wasn't , so suggesting he hasn't the nuts to say they built a poor car is simply not the truth .

[Brown, Jon Brow]

He has got a point about F1 being purely about aerodynamics now.

[F1boat]

I agree about your criticism about Luca. He seems very bitter after his loss and his words about Bernie are pathetic. To be frank, Luca seems way more senile than Bernie to me. His words about Michael show only helplessness. There are rumors that Ferrari kind of forced Michael into an early retirement. If so, it is extremely arrogant to expect help from him. Even if it isn't so, it is still cheeky as both Luca and Piero Ferrari has said silly stuff about Michael's return in Mercedes. Besides, it is his last race and it is understandable if he wanted to help his close friend and not his old enemy. I personally think that Michael did the correct thing. It would have been horrible if he decided the WDC fight with an accident with Seb.
About Marko, I disagree with you. Helmut is unpleasant, but I think that he tells the things as they are, although I personally think that he could be more polite.

[wedge]

So is LdM admitting that Ferrari colludd with Sauber in the past?

[dj_bytedisaster]

Wait now , you're saying that Luca had a Torro Rosso to complain about and didn't , and you're slagging him for it ?

Yes, that's what I do. The Torro's gave Vettel two - if not more - free passes, complaining about Schumacher now seems silly to the extreme. Halfway into the season they had a comfortable 40 points lead, mainly due to fernando's sublime driving and they lost it, because RB out-developed them. Complaining afterwards about two points that Vettel got cheaply from Schumacher is schoolyard girlie gang stuff and I would have expected more grace from a man like LdM. The truth is, wether Schumacher fought or not it didn't make the least bit of a difference and even mentioning it smacks of desperation or a cheap shot to deflect the fan's frustration.