Autosport awards - a complete joke!

[MrJan]

Maybe it's because Lewis acts like a spoilt twerp? I think he's a great driver but Jenson is a great driver too, doesn't spend his whole time blaming someone else and actually seems like a decent bloke (I would quite happily go to the pub with JB, Hamilton less so).

[The Black Knight]

That is the point where I disagree. Red Bull 2012 is the best example. Mark was on par if not slightly better than Vettel in the first half of the season, because the car's twitchyness suited Marks style and really hurt Vettel's. Once they had recovered back-end stability, Vettel beat the pants off Mark. That's the thing, even the best drivers in the world need a car that fits their preferred driving style. IIRC from seasons past, both Alonso and Hamilton prefer a slightly oversteering car - so one with more glue on the front. Which in theory means, they would make Vettel look like Deletraz in a car, which prefers their style, while Vettel would probably trounce them if the car was tailored to his style, so saying Alonso or Hamilton would automatically beat Vettel in the same machinery is academic and more likely wishful thinking.
Vettel has shown that he's quick regardless of the car in spec machinery. He cleaned out the German Formula BMW by winning each and every race (18 out of 20) except two, where he finished 2nd and third. You don't trounce a complete championship like that by having to rely on the best machinery. He also bowed out of the Renault World series as the leader, when he was called up to drive for BMW and then STR.
People also tend to forget that he's the only one, who ever finished a STR higher than 7. If we would be still running the old point scheme, he would be the only person ever to score points in a STR and he did that several times and one of that times was a win. I think he's better than given credit for, but I think he'll be able to silence his critics when he leaves RB, which will probably be at the end of his current contract after 2014.

I feel that it doesn't matter what car you give Alonso or Hamilton, both would be able to modify their style of driving to suit it but Vettel wouldn't be able to adapt as well, as shown earlier this year, and that is why I don't regard Vettel as highly.

But you may be right, and I'm very open to the possibility that I am underrating Vettel. Maybe over the coming years he'll silence his critics, including me. If he does, I'll be more than happy to change my opinion of him and admit I was wrong.

[dj_bytedisaster]

It reflects his abilities - inferior when the car is not to his liking and can never overcome/extract the maximum in the dry.

To be honest, that can be said about every racing driver. When the Ferrari isn't to his liking, even Alonso cannot do a thing. Best example: Austin. He qualified 9th, almost 0.400 behind his team mate. Then he got handed two positions by Grosjean and the shafting of Massa. He made up two places by a good start and that was it. He was fourth after the first corner and all he did for the rest of the race was losing time on Vettel and Hamilton and inheriting Webber's 3rd place. He came in a lucky third almost 40 seconds behing. His team mate, who was shafted back to 11th ended up 7 second behind him in 4th.
That only goes to show that even a driver as quick as Alonso looks very ordinary if the car isn't up to it. He didn't extract the maximum out of it - Massa did.

[wedge]

That is the point where I disagree. Red Bull 2012 is the best example. Mark was on par if not slightly better than Vettel in the first half of the season, because the car's twitchyness suited Marks style and really hurt Vettel's. Once they had recovered back-end stability, Vettel beat the pants off Mark. That's the thing, even the best drivers in the world need a car that fits their preferred driving style. IIRC from seasons past, both Alonso and Hamilton prefer a slightly oversteering car - so one with more glue on the front. Which in theory means, they would make Vettel look like Deletraz in a car, which prefers their style, while Vettel would probably trounce them if the car was tailored to his style, so saying Alonso or Hamilton would automatically beat Vettel in the same machinery is academic and more likely wishful thinking.

Both Webber and Seb like cars with sharp turn in but go about it in different ways. Seb is like Mansell: early turn in on the brakes and rotate the car immediately coming of the brakes; Webber is the textbook late turn in.

Alonso is adaptable but his style is an aggressive version of JB's with mid-corner understeer - notable in the Renault era.

[F1boat]

I feel that it doesn't matter what car you give Alonso or Hamilton, both would be able to modify their style of driving to suit it but Vettel wouldn't be able to adapt as well, as shown earlier this year, and that is why I don't regard Vettel as highly.

But you may be right, and I'm very open to the possibility that I am underrating Vettel. Maybe over the coming years he'll silence his critics, including me. If he does, I'll be more than happy to change my opinion of him and admit I was wrong.

In my opinion time will be kind to Vettel. If he wins more championships at one moment numbers will be too overwhelming not to consider him an F1 great. But even if he doesn't win more, people start to appreciate the achievements of drivers when their success starts to sink in them. My personal impression is that Mika Hakkinen for example is more highly rated now, when people have fond memories of his wins, that at the time of these wins, when many felt that he is winning what rightfully should be to Michael Schumacher. Alonso is also more respected now than in 2005 and 2006, when many people though that he won due to better reliability.

[The Black Knight]

In my opinion time will be kind to Vettel. If he wins more championships at one moment numbers will be too overwhelming not to consider him an F1 great. But even if he doesn't win more, people start to appreciate the achievements of drivers when their success starts to sink in them. My personal impression is that Mika Hakkinen for example is more highly rated now, when people have fond memories of his wins, that at the time of these wins, when many felt that he is winning what rightfully should be to Michael Schumacher. Alonso is also more respected now than in 2005 and 2006, when many people though that he won due to better reliability.

Yeah, unfortunately a lot of people seem to go in for nostalgia. I honestly feel that Mika was a really good driver but I'd never regard him in the pantheon of all time greats. On his day he was super quick but there was always that little bit of edge missing for me. Still a fantastic driver and I'd rate him higher than JB and very similarly to Vettel in that regard. Give him the car and he's the flying Finn, if he doesn't have it, then maybe not flying so much

[Tazio]

Button 2012 British Competition Driver of the Year

Rubbish
This "poll' must have been taken after "The Boss" announced his move to Mercedes, and it affected some butt hurt UK fans
This sort of nonsense is insulting, and it drags this informed forum down if we give it any credence.

[CaptainRaiden]

Not necessarily. I consider myself a die-hard F1 fan and I wouldn't make that particular distinction. First of all, no matter how much people deny it, personal preference always play into it, when 'listing drivers by awesomeness'.

Well, of course. Driver "awesomeness" lists are personal opinions after all. The only way to find out how good they are is if all three were driving the exact same cars. I have no problem with Vettel to be clear. I am aware of his talent, and also appreciative of his brilliant qualifying pace. You don't win 3 championships by being mediocre. IMO Alonso and Lewis are superior, but it is just that, an opinion.

Barely any driver has been exposed to so much vitriol like Vettel over the last two years when the only crime he has committed is winning too much.

I believe Vettel doesn't get much love from a lot of people is because of his antics and sometimes petulant behavior. Some drivers just piss people off for no apparent reason. Probably the same reason why some fans go off on Hamilton. And then there are some "fans", even on this forum, who can't stand Hamilton for the same reasons, yet go absolutely gaga over Vettel. For example I hated Alonso during the 2005-2008 period, but now have warmed up to him recognizing his brilliance.

Therefore many people are driven to say that he's a much lesser driver than Alonso or Hamilton, which is wrong. Each driver has his personal strengths and weaknesses.
Vettel is a very fast and talented driver, but his weakness is that he has developed such a specialized driving style, that he's nigh-on unbeatable when the car fits his preference, but when it doesn't - he struggles.

He still does better than many give him credit for. For example, he was very consistent this season, along with Alonso regularly getting into points even when the car wasn't to his liking. However, IMO Alonso and Hamilton can drive around a car's problem better as they have demonstrated against Massa and Button.

Jenson is probably the most unspectacular of all drivers, but he is efficient. No matter how much faster Lewis appears to be, over the three years they've been driving together, Jenson has won more points than Lewis, just by being reliable. And that is as much part of a complete driver than being blindingly quick. Which is why Alonso was so great this year - he was fast AND reliable. People all point as Lewis' retirements due to technical failures. I've always wondered whether his aggressive style isn't putting too much strain on the mechanical parts.

Sorry, but that is simply false and ridiculous. Driving styles don't break cars. This has long been a myth, and has been proven to be wrong over the last decade. Kimi was called a car breaker during his stint at Mclaren, but that disappeared once he went to Ferrari and now at Lotus. Did he change his driving style? No. TBH I don't think he'd even care enough. Lewis enjoyed very good reliability in 2007 and 2008. Did he become more aggressive? No.

F1 cars are supposed to be driven hard and aggressively. If Lewis or Kimi would have gone harder on kerbs than others, they would either go off track or the car would lose performance coming out of corners and the lap time won't be fast. Lewis simply carries much more corner speed than Button when you look at their lap comparisons, and ultimately delivers a faster lapRon Dennis himself has said in the past that it was Mclaren's fault for not giving Kimi a reliable enough car to win the WDC. Mclaren has always had the lion's share of mechanical problems, right from the Hakkinen era to Kimi and now Lewis has also suffered the same. You can't say that all three drivers are car breakers.

Long story short. I think most of the top-drivers are championship material, but they need different things to go their way to achieve it and Alonso proved that there is no such driver as one, who would win in any case. They all need the correct circumstances to make most of their strengths and to avoid their weaknesses.

Agreed. I truly believe Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel showed the form of their life in 2012. While luck made it easier for some, it made it much harder for others at different points. In the end, reliability, teamwork and a good driver was the winning combination. Most of the knowledgeable F1 fans I know still consider Alonso and Lewis to be superior, but their conclusion could also be affected by annoyance over Vettel and Red Bull winning all the time. IMO Alonso and Lewis are better, but by a small margin. I have no way to prove it, but that is why it is what it is, an opinion.

[CaptainRaiden]

Rubbish
This "poll' must have been taken after "The Boss" announced his move to Mercedes, and it affected some butt hurt UK fans

I was thinking about the same thing. Maybe in 2011 Jenson would have earned it, but not in 2012, not by a long shot.

Last time I checked, Lewis is British, or did he change his nationality to German by moving to Mercedes as well?

I'm guessing they were just looking for any way to give an award to Button. Freaking joke.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Well said, Cap'n

BTW, about drivers' personalities. We should keep in mind that what we get to see on TV is often not very representative of their real nature. Why Vettel has chosen to be obnoxious, while in reality he is a very likeable and funny guy remains anybodies guess. I would hazard a guess that the influence of Dr. Marko isn't a very positive one.
Hamilton has done himself no favours with 2011 and also Alonso had his moments this year, like throwing the hat of Vettel to the side like a petulant child in Abu Dhabi. Guess media pressure, people constantly brown-nosing them does that to people.