German Grand Prix Thread

[Tazio]

Kudos to you for looking for the best in people, you are a better man than me... or maybe you just didn't see Whitmarsh's face when the Sky comentators asked him about 'team play' re- Lewis passing Vettel ?

The last 15 secs or so on this video.

Video of the Day: Whitmarsh on Vettel-Button pass

What is your point? Whitmarsh always has that smile on his face. Why would he say he sent Hamilton out to collect data, which makes it sound like Hamilton isn't a racer? In fact he said explicitly that he sent him out to race.
Find me a quote where he says he sent him out to contravene the rules, or at least to affect Finger boy, or Eyebrow man's race ailor:, or even to help Button, and then you will have something. I do understand why you feel the way you do, but that interview was staged for what I can only refer to, (and you must realize I'm an old guy and I'm really only interested in the competition, as are most evolved Americans my age in regard to viewing sports) as a juicy bit of controversy. I admire many things about your culture but your obsession with the tabloid aspect of sports is alien to the Southern California/American culture that I grew up in.
Peace my man

[Zico]

What is your point? Whitmarsh always has that smile on his face. Why would he say he sent Hamilton out to collect data, which makes it sound like Hamilton isn't a racer? In fact he said explicitly that he sent him out to race.
Find me a quote where he says he sent him out to contravene the rules, or at least to affect Finger boy, or Eyebrow man's race ailor:, or even to help Button, and then you will have something. I do understand why you feel the way you do, but that interview was staged for what I can only refer to, (and you must realize I'm an old guy and I'm really only interested in the competition, as are most evolved Americans my age in regard to viewing sports) as a juicy bit of controversy. I admire many things about your culture but your obsession with the tabloid aspect of sports is alien to the Southern California/American culture that I grew up in.
Peace my man

There is no direct quote, and nor would there be in such a situation. Lewis had earlier said on the radio that he thought he should retire then Whitmarsh said something along the lines of "its legal.. and Lewis wanted to go back out and race" (smirking) eh?.. which doesn't really stack up. Whether they actualy did is debatable but to the pessimist in me it looks like interfering with the leading duo's race had at least been considered... just a personal opinion. Peace to you also.

[Tazio]

Don't you think he was very possibly saying that it is alright to un-lap yourself in reply to Hamilton saying that there was no reason to stay out because he was a lap down? That is how I would read it having heard Hamilton say he wanted to retire.

[Zico]

Don't you think he was very possibly saying that it is alright to un-lap yourself in reply to Hamilton saying that there was no reason to stay out because he was a lap down? That is how I would read it having heard Hamilton say he wanted to retire.

It has happened before, back in 85.. the Shell GP of Europe at Brands Hatch. Rosberg had a coming together with Piquet whilst battling for the lead and suffered a puncture. He got back to the pits but was a lap down so he waited until Senna was coming round and pulled out of the pits in front of him (Senna was leading at the time IIRC). Senna later complained that Rosberg impeded him in order for Mansell to catch up and pass him, which he did. It was Mansell's first win.

Yes that is quite an extreme comparison and maybe I am too suspicious by nature but having happened before is it really such a ridiculous thought?


1. Lewis initially said he thought he should retire..
2. Passed Vettel and went off chasing down Alonso.
3. Obviously pushing very hard beyond race pace he stated on the radio that there was no way his tyres were going to last at this pace.
4. had a couple of nibbles at Alonso before Alonso pulled away slightly then pitted.
5. Lewis then pitted as his tyres were again shot? and it was better to save the car and iirc Jenson had got past Vettel and therefore he really had no other reason to be out there anymore.
6. Whitmarsh stated in the interview that it was 'legal to race the leaders and Lewis wanted to go back out and race' Eh??.. Doesn't really tie with Leweis earlier radio comment does it?

Feel free to correct me if the timeline is muddled and/or quotes taken out of context and whether they actually interfered or not is up for debate but to me it looks like they had at least considered it. If I was being gracious I'd suggest he was sent back out to collect tyre data for 110% race pace in a slightly damaged car, hmm... :/

Just a personal theory thats based on evidence thats circumstancial at best but just thinking outside the box and sharing my thoughts here for you to pick holes in if you wish. Its ok to share your thoughts on forums, no?

[Tazio]

It has happened before, back in 85.. the Shell GP of Europe at Brands Hatch. Rosberg had a coming together with Piquet whilst battling for the lead and suffered a puncture. He got back to the pits but was a lap down so he waited until Senna was coming round and pulled out of the pits in front of him (Senna was leading at the time IIRC). Senna later complained that Rosberg impeded him in order for Mansell to catch up and pass him, which he did. It was Mansell's first win.

Yes that is quite an extreme comparison and maybe I am too suspicious by nature but having happened before is it really such a ridiculous thought?


1. Lewis initially said he thought he should retire..
2. Passed Vettel and went off chasing down Alonso.
3. Obviously pushing very hard beyond race pace he stated on the radio that there was no way his tyres were going to last at this pace.
4. had a couple of nibbles at Alonso before Alonso pulled away slightly then pitted.
5. Lewis then pitted as his tyres were again shot? and it was better to save the car and iirc Jenson had got past Vettel and therefore he really had no other reason to be out there anymore.
6. Whitmarsh stated in the interview that it was 'legal to race the leaders and Lewis wanted to go back out and race' Eh??.. Doesn't really tie with Leweis earlier radio comment does it?

Feel free to correct me if the timeline is muddled and/or quotes taken out of context and whether they actually interfered or not is up for debate but to me it looks like they had at least considered it. If I was being gracious I'd suggest he was sent back out to collect tyre data for 110% race pace in a slightly damaged car, hmm... :/

Just a personal theory thats based on evidence thats circumstancial at best but just thinking outside the box and sharing my thoughts here for you to pick holes in if you wish. Its ok to share your thoughts on forums, no?

I will gladly yield! I have not given it anywhere near that degree of consideration. It is 6:30 am PDT as I type, and I've been frying my eyes out on my computer screen for about 6 hours You have certainly provided a tidy case with what I trust is a correct chronology of what was said and done. I believe there are more things in heaven and on earth than are dreamt of in my philosophy…. which is:
I don't believe that The Boss would sacrifice his season for a teammate that has almost no chance to win the WDC, to say nothing of his reputation as a sportsman. I would find it much more plausible if it was the ultimate or penultimate race of the season as there is a well documented history of this type of behavior. I hope you can appreciate that this may have been a stimulating mind exercise for you in the morning to afternoon, while I on the other hand have struggled to stay awake through FP1 and 2 as I always make it a point to watch the entire weekend live. You may be right. I hope for the sake of McLaren you are not, because at this point in the season this action would not benefit McLaren even for points in the WCC because whatever could be gained would be lost in penalties. The only scenario I can think of right now that would surely advance McLarens team and driver standings is if The Boss killed or maimed Scuderia Alonso. At any rate enjoy the rest of the weekend.
BTW right now "I don't know where the space is between my eyes"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGBNg5H1CwE

[Zico]

Thanks but Its not about yielding, its just a discussion on a theory as far as Im concerned. Im just glad you can see why I have my suspicions.

I also hope I am totally wrong for the sake of McLaren and Lewis's own integrity. If it was the truth, as far as unlapping yourself goes, it is perfectly legal to do what Lewis did, so unless it was freely admitted its not something that could sacrifice his season.

Staying up to watch FP1 and 2!... now thats what I call a diehard follower of F1! I know the feeling well but not for these reasons. I hope you got the chance to catch up with some sleep today sir. Peace and out.

[Tazio]

If it was the truth, as far as unlapping yourself goes, it is perfectly legal to do what Lewis did

That is one thing I have never contended! If you have that impression go back to the beginning of the thread and I was in total agreement that Fred should allow this to happen, and quoted him as saying that is exactly what he planned to do if he ever thought The Boss was actually capable of doing it! My only disagreement with you is that He The Boss wouldn't go “Medieval” ala Senna/Prost/JV/Shu on his a$$
P.S. I slept gloriously from 7:30am untill 2:00 PM
Thanks for caring
I still don't know where the space is between my eyes, but that is a bit of a philosophical delema tareup:

'Til I find out, where will I go,
where will I go
I don't know, I don't know,

I don't know where
The space is between my eyes
Open up the heavenly skies
Death awaits at the pearly gates
For those who've been mesmerized
Many years has come and gone

Went to see a standing stone
Some in circles, some alone
Ancient, worn and weather torn
They chill me to the very bone

Many of these can be seen
In quiet places, fields of green
Of hedgerow lanes with countless names
But the only thing that remains
Are the roll right stones

- Chorus

Space age before my eyes
Opening up the skies
Devil waits at the pearly gates
For those who have been mesmerized

Many a years has come and gone
But progress marches slowly on
In nature's paint, she hides the stain
'Cuz everybody is going insane
The only, the only thing
That will sustain are the roll right stones

Roll Right Stones (7X)
(Musical Interlude)"

- Chorus

'Til I find out, where will I go,
Where will I go
I don't know, I don't know,
I don't know where
The space is between my eyes

Open up the heavenly skies
Death awaits at the pearly gates
For those who've been mesmerized
Many years has come and gone

Went to see an ancient mound
People buried underground
Long ago, will never know
What it was like to hear their sounds
Black crow, I know you've been here
You've see the sights of yesteryear
You steal the grain of the conquered plain
But the only thing that remains
Are the roll right stones

[Zico]

That is one thing I have never contended!

I know... I was just clumsily reiterating the point that possible ulterior motives would be extremely difficult to prove.

Not very often you see lyrics used to say something in the F1 forum...

Not as apt but here is a favourite of mine.. Lets have a sing-song!


So, so you think you can tell
Heaven from Hell,
Blue sky's from pain.
Can you tell a green field
From a cold steel rail?
A smile from a veil?
Do you think you can tell?

And did they get you to trade
Your heroes for ghosts?
Hot ashes for trees?
Hot air for a cool breeze?
Cold comfort for change?
And did you exchange
A walk on part in the war
For a lead role in a cage?

How I wish, how I wish you were here.
We're just two lost souls
Swimming in a fish bowl,
Year after year,
Running over the same old ground.
And how we found
The same old fears.
Wish you were here.

[Tazio]

Steve Winwood, and Roger Waters, two Rock and Roll gods IMHO
I saw Traffic in 1973 with the opening act beind "Free" (Paul Rogers later to be the leader of "Bad Co." and "The Firm")

[F1boat]

1. I distinctly remember Kubice a few years ago unlapping himself, where was your outrage?

I don't know, I don't remember what I posted years ago LOL