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Thread: R2 Cars

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    R2 Cars

    The R2 class is again expanding with another brand with the Peugeot 208.
    Drivers can now choose from:

    Citroen C2 R2 + Max
    Ford Fiesta R2
    Renault Twingo R2 + Evo
    Skoda Fabia R2
    Peugeot 208 R2

    They have btw 160 and 195 hp, but there are more factors than only power. Torque and torque band, suspension and drivability and so on.
    What are the differences in drivability on these cars, espesially on gravel?
    Are some more nervous than the other, and do some suite a particular driving style than the other?

    I have had a question from a driver that are planning to buy a R2 for 2013, but would like to know more on the diferences btw them before he chooses.
    Can any of the oracles here shed some light on this subject?


    What are the drivers comments on the different R2s?
    www.parcferme.no

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    C2 max is the best r2 car at the moment in my opinion (probably until 208 will be available). it has good BOS suspension, a lot of upgrades, very reliable after many years of competing and is most powerful, maybe a little bit nervous at high speeds...
    fiesta is very nice to drive, has great reiger suspension (which works very well even with just 2 adjustments in the rear dampers), but lacks a lot of power comparing to c2 max. also to make it competitive you have to invest in a lot of Msport upgrades. also different is that you're not buying complete caged bodyshell from msport, but just a rollcage that has to be fitted by authorised company into donor car, options for 3door and 5door available. also conversion from tarmac/gravel is not difficult, as just few parts are different, for example not complete brakes are different but you use same caliper just with or without special adapters.
    twingo I have only experience with first verision, not evo. it was very nice car, with a lot better traction than c2, but at that time lacking a lot of power comparing to c2 max.
    fabia I have not a lot of experience, it's private build car, just homologated by factory and because of smaller team preparing the cars/parts it's not so popular. also quite expensive I've heard, but I'm not sure about it.
    208 looks to be really great car, but honestly we have to wait till November for the first cars available for the private customers to be able to say more.
    you need any more info please lt me know, we were taking care of few c2 and fiesta rally cars, now we are looking forward for 208...

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    In july normally the 208 R2 will have its first official competition, in Ireland(Ulster Rally)
    Remains to be seen who will drive the car though

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom206wrc
    In july normally the 208 R2 will have its first official competition, in Ireland(Ulster Rally)
    Remains to be seen who will drive the car though
    Yep, I know, but normally to see true potential of the car, true behaviour, problems, etc. you have to see the car in private team hands...

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    Senior Member Sulland's Avatar
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    The guy in question is mostly interested in trying out a C2 Max, but is unsure on behavior on that one on gravel and snow compared with a Fiesta or Twingo Evo.
    He likes a neutral set up, maybe with a bit of oversteer out of the corners, and finds the older Clio N3 hard to set up to his liking.

    Have your team Br21 any experience on gravel with the C2, and are they easy to set up not to be too nervous on the loose surface?
    www.parcferme.no

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    with Twingo (especially "evo") I have no experience on gravel, I just attend some early test of it on tarmac and there the grip and traction was really impressive, better than c2.
    In my opinion c2 wil always be more nervous than fiesta, just because the dimensions of the car (~30cms shorter in total, 16cms shorter wheelbase, etc.) but good driver can set it up really well with BOS dampers and knowing some "special behaviour" of this car can drive really fast. Fiesta will be much smoother, with little bit more oversteer, giving the driver split second more for reaction, but also way less powerfull so on the fast stages you've got in scandinavia it could be an important factor... fiesta is better while jumping I also think, it lands better, rear suspension absorbs it better...
    also the fiesta is cheaper to run...

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    Senior Member Sulland's Avatar
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    Thanks for good answers br21!

    I have tried to put togeter a spreadsheet on hard tech facts found online for all R2s. Have tried to find the front and rear track width on the Fiesta, but have not been able to find it yet. Do anyone know those measures?
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    Quote Originally Posted by br21
    with Twingo (especially "evo") I have no experience on gravel, I just attend some early test of it on tarmac and there the grip and traction was really impressive, better than c2.
    In my opinion c2 wil always be more nervous than fiesta, just because the dimensions of the car (~30cms shorter in total, 16cms shorter wheelbase, etc.) but good driver can set it up really well with BOS dampers and knowing some "special behaviour" of this car can drive really fast. Fiesta will be much smoother, with little bit more oversteer, giving the driver split second more for reaction, but also way less powerfull so on the fast stages you've got in scandinavia it could be an important factor... fiesta is better while jumping I also think, it lands better, rear suspension absorbs it better...
    also the fiesta is cheaper to run...
    I agree with these comments. Of course it's good to have more power than the opposition, but it doesn't guarantee faster stage times even in Scandinavia. In Finland both the C2 and Fiesta have been equally fast. For example Jukka Korhonen was the fastest R2 driver this weekend in Lapua and the special stages sometimes looked more like an airstrip than a special stage. Here is a link for in-car footage POPPankki SM-Ralli Lapua 2012, Jukka Korhonen SS1 - YouTube

    The most important factors to get speed out of R2s is to have a good setup and really put some thought (and practice time) on good pace notes.

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    Mapping the Fiesta for E85, what doesmthat do for the HP/NM ?
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    My good friend has driven both the C2 R2 Max and the Fiesta and we have talked about this subject a lot. His experiences are more or less the same as br21 stated. The Fiesta has much better handling and better suspension (Reiger) than C2. It is cheaper to maintain and rent. C2 is sometimes unstable on high speeds and more unstable under heavy braking. However, the almost 30 HP power advantage for the Citroen means that in most cases, with the same driver, the C2 will be a faster car. All these infos are based on asphalt experience

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