New here, never actually raced, but...

[Mark]

Fair enough. I'm aware that karts also require extra equipment, which means more money. Thanks for the tip on Autocross, I'll probably end up pursuing that. And yeah, you're right, I don't actually know I'm fast in comparison to other racers. I have a strong feeling, based on what I know I can do in a cheap car in different circumstances than would occur in a race. I'll have to try and see what happens in the field, rather than racing on the streets.



Think you could have been a little more harsh? I know that I'm much better than the average lay driver, at the very, very least. My friends are the kind of people who own Golf GTIs, WRX STIs, plain old Imprezas, Eclipses and the like, and I've never, ever even come close to losing a race to them--bear in mind that I drive a 4-cylinder, 4-door 2007 Accord, and I'm going against those cars. And my friends are fantastic drivers. So I know I have some measure of skill. Training-wise, I'd say I have about three year's worth of experience, since I've had my license for about two and a half years now, and I had my learner's permit for a year beforehand. Controlling a car has never been a problem for me. I can buzz through gaps that most people wouldn't be willing to even try to ease through (static gaps between things like telephone poles and shopping carts, not gaps in traffic, I'm not that reckless). And I'm very analytical, for the most part. My situational awareness is ridiculous, due to my ADHD; nothing gets filtered out, ever. Being analytical is the very trait that led me to this forum. I know that many, if not all, of the doors to racing are closed to me at the moment, so I came here to gather knowledge and advice from people experienced in the industry. And keep in mind that I never said I have no money. I'm on a very tight budget, but I make around $500-$600 a month. So please, don't tell me to "go back and choose some richer parents". I'm here to learn, and maybe eventually contribute something useful; I'm certainly not here to be scoffed at.

Also, I invite you to sit in the passenger seat of my car and tell me I'm not a better than average driver. I promise I wouldn't wrap the car around a tree or anything. I'd just give you a ride better than you'd expect possible in that car.

You cannot possibly know that until you get to the likes of a track day or karting event and give it a go.

Personally, I can drive faster than most people on the road are going if I feel like it. Does that make me a good racing driver? No, I'd suck!

So you'll have to spend some money, no choice.

[Zico]

Hi and welcome to the forum, as Mark says above.. the public roads/non competition drivers are not really worthy of comparing yourself against.. not only that you could end up killing innocent people in the process so please only compete in a safe environment.

You dont really have an idea how quick you are or could be until you start racing at club level among similar minded people. I used to often win any indoor karting events I attended and a good few years ago was also was one of the top 3 Toca 3 DTM Sim mode racers online.. and had some fantastic battles.. does that make me an exceptional driver? No, far from it.. I'm just among the quickest from a relatively small slice of the population. A few years ago I tried my hand at a club level karting race with a kart I borrowed but I started getting lapped half way through the race and actually felt that finishing third from last was a great effort.. lol so if you do try karting dont be downhearted when you get blown into the weeds.. these guys are usually looking for tenths even hundredths at corners while you are often left simply learning the lines and trying to piece them all together before even beginning to think about tinkering with the set-up.

If like me you dont have much of a disposable budget why not get/build yourself a decent PC with a triple monitor set-up, a sim wheel with force feedback such as a Fanatec CSR with some V1 Clubsport pedals which actually feature a loadcell for measuring brake pressure unlike other pedal sets which usually only have a potentiometer for measuring pedal distance travelled. Then try your hand at RSRBR12 (A Richard Burns Rally mod) or one of the various PC racing sims on the market ie, RFactor iracing etc. In the long run It will cost you a fraction of the cost of karting, it will be a lot of fun and very rewarding as you continue to improve with experience.. and if you are as good as you think you are you will soon start winning races.

Here is a vid of rFactor2 beta '68 F1 Monaco sim.. no aero.. and my idea of proper fun! race sim cockpit 20120126 rFactor2 beta '68 F1 Monaco - YouTube
Should give you an idea of the possibilities..

[Dave B]

In recent years--the past two, for the most part--I've taught myself to drive, and to handle a car in a way that many would expect to be near impossible, if not fully so. More precisely, I've taught myself to drive insane roads at insane speeds in Honda Accords; not the sportiest of cars, but sufficiently quick and maneuverable enough that I can keep up with a WRX STI on curvy, crumbling asphalt roads through the woods. I've also met the Governor of Speed in the car I currently drive, a 2007 Accord. He resides at 130 miles per hour. So I know I'm not slow, and I know how to push a car to the brink of its handling; how to feel the front tires through the wheel and all four through the seat of my pants; how to recognize when either the front or back of the car is slipping and correct for it (though I wouldn't be able to put any of these feelings or actions into words. Cars are all instinct for me); how to run a car until its brakes are red-hot, literally, without crashing into guardrails. I have the perfect skill-set for racing, along with the right mindset. I'm sorry about the shameless plugging--not so shameless, really, I'm terribly sorry for it. But it's all driving towards my point.

I've got a friend who works as an intensive care nurse. She's met loads of people like you.

[pkeegs]

You cannot possibly know that until you get to the likes of a track day or karting event and give it a go.

Personally, I can drive faster than most people on the road are going if I feel like it. Does that make me a good racing driver? No, I'd suck!

So you'll have to spend some money, no choice.

I know I can't know how I'll fare in actual, legitimate competition until I go and do it; I said that myself in the my response to airshifter. And track days aren't really that common around here, though I know they have them in California and the Midwest. I know I'll have to spend money, but I
m trying to figure out how to spend the smallest amount possible.

Hi and welcome to the forum, as Mark says above.. the public roads/non competition drivers are not really worthy of comparing yourself against.. not only that you could end up killing innocent people in the process so please only compete in a safe environment.

You dont really have an idea how quick you are or could be until you start racing at club level among similar minded people. I used to often win any indoor karting events I attended and a good few years ago was also was one of the top 3 Toca 3 DTM Sim mode racers online.. and had some fantastic battles.. does that make me an exceptional driver? No, far from it.. I'm just among the quickest from a relatively small slice of the population. A few years ago I tried my hand at a club level karting race with a kart I borrowed but I started getting lapped half way through the race and actually felt that finishing third from last was a great effort.. lol so if you do try karting dont be downhearted when you get blown into the weeds.. these guys are usually looking for tenths even hundredths at corners while you are often left simply learning the lines and trying to piece them all together before even beginning to think about tinkering with the set-up.

If like me you dont have much of a disposable budget why not get/build yourself a decent PC with a triple monitor set-up, a sim wheel with force feedback such as a Fanatec CSR with some V1 Clubsport pedals which actually feature a loadcell for measuring brake pressure unlike other pedal sets which usually only have a potentiometer for measuring pedal distance travelled. Then try your hand at RSRBR12 (A Richard Burns Rally mod) or one of the various PC racing sims on the market ie, RFactor iracing etc. In the long run It will cost you a fraction of the cost of karting, it will be a lot of fun and very rewarding as you continue to improve with experience.. and if you are as good as you think you are you will soon start winning races.

Here is a vid of rFactor2 beta '68 F1 Monaco sim.. no aero.. and my idea of proper fun! race sim cockpit 20120126 rFactor2 beta '68 F1 Monaco - YouTube
Should give you an idea of the possibilities..

Thanks for the welcome I've thought about sims, but I don't think I could stand that being my only racing experience, as much as I wish I could. It's nice to watch things go fast, but for me, driving is alllll about the feel, and even with a great force-feedback wheel, realistic-feeling and -acting pedals, and a realistic gearshift, that's impossible for a game to replicate. In regards to comparing myself against other drivers, I do that, but to a lesser extent than against myself. I don't drive like that on the open roads anymore, thankfully, but when I did, I got to the point where I myself was shaving hundredths off of my time around my neighborhood, which is a huge former retirement community arranged in a loop. I didn't have anything to compare those to, but I learned how to enter and leave different styles of turns, on different inclines, with different banking, in different conditions, etc. to reliably get around the "track", so to speak, at crazy speeds. I have a video somewhere that I took by placing my iPod against the windshield. If I find it, I'll post it here and to see what people think (with, of course, the disclaimer that I know I was being stupid and dangerous, and I don't engage in that type of behavior anymore). I also understand that learning one course doesn't necessarily translate easily to other courses, but certain rules of thumb (including that rules of thumb are unreliable at best in racing) can be distilled from even small amounts of experience. However, even if I'm the slowest person on the track, I'd rather deal with years of real racing without success than not race.

[pkeegs]

I've got a friend who works as an intensive care nurse. She's met loads of people like you.

Ha. Ha. Ha.
I've already said that I know driving like that has its risks, and I will say that if I had gotten into an accident, I would have deserved it. But it's not your place to tell me that. Especially not in the way you phrased it. You have no idea what I'm like. If you met me, you wouldn't believe I was pkeegs. You know what else I do in my free time? I play Scottish fiddle music and classical music on my violin; I sing; I read; I play with my dog; I try to get over my ex who dumped me out of nowhere after two years of dating, and who was the most important person in my life; I work in musical theatre, and definitely not for the money. You don't know me, don't go thinking you know what I'm like.

[Mark]

Your cheapest option will be to try some karting. Most places allow you to pay per lap.

[Zico]

You don't know me, don't go thinking you know what I'm like.

Maybe so, but to be fair to Dave.. that is how you come across in your initial post.


With regards to your previous post that sims can not possibly come close to the real thing.. that is absolutely true but unless you do have a reasonable dissposable income its a pipe dream for a lot of us... and the next best thing is Sim racing.

[pkeegs]

Your cheapest option will be to try some karting. Most places allow you to pay per lap.

Thanks man, I appreciate the help.

That goes for everyone else who contributed to this thread in a positive manner.

[Dave B]

Ha. Ha. Ha.

Oh I'm not joking.

You have no idea what I'm like.

You've told me all I need to know: you think it's acceptable to race on public roads and put others at risk. You justify it, like hundreds exactly like you, by claiming that you're special, that you're somehow gifted. There are hospitals and graveyards filled with people just like you who don't think the rules apply to them, that they can somehow rise about the mediocrity. You think you're gifted: go to a track day or a kart circuit and test yourself in controlled conditions with appropriate safety measures. Who knows, you might be right and I've just exchanged posts with the next Senna or Loeb. But don't race on public roads and expect any respect whatsoever from me.

[janvanvurpa]

Oh I'm not joking.


You've told me all I need to know: you think it's acceptable to race on public roads and put others at risk. You justify it, like hundreds exactly like you, by claiming that you're special, that you're somehow gifted. There are hospitals and graveyards filled with people just like you who don't think the rules apply to them, that they can somehow rise about the mediocrity. You think you're gifted: go to a track day or a kart circuit and test yourself in controlled conditions with appropriate safety measures. Who knows, you might be right and I've just exchanged posts with the next Senna or Loeb. But don't race on public roads and expect any respect whatsoever from me.

Dave you mean old Pommie b*#!!?~~ don't you know we're all special, each unique like a snow flake, special among millions?
Well we are all special and unique, and the boy is special. He said so.

I agree he sounds similar, no, he sounds IDENTICAL, same phrases, same justifications , same assurances same whining as hundreds of other whiney boys to the point I wonder if he is real or a computer program written to wind up motorsport fans by dropping the known key words "I race my buddies on the back roads, I know I am exceptionally fast cause i beat my friend in a Wrecks" ---(of course the mere fact that your friend is stupid, and young and has been driving maybe 2 years and thus massively inexperienced escaped your notice because you are young and stupid and inexperienced).

In fact I think the only thing worth any discussion is the eerie exact phrasing of the delusions...

Because he---and all those other boys saying they're unique---are delusional.
This kid at 18 1/2 max never having raced anything, how do they all come up with the mistaken impression that they "exceptional"?

I wonder if Emmerson Manfalplaldi knows that far and away the No1 cause of death for boys 14-26 years old by a long shot is motor vehicle accidents.....a huge portion of which are single car---and that every one of those geniuses thought they were exceptionally good. including every one of those geniuses who killed 1-3 of their stupid friends who foolishly got in a car with them.

So the only interesting thing is :How do so many young guys become so convinced--with a total lack of any awareness or experience---that they have exception talents?