vettel and his records

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Kubica? Oh well.

Well I can hope that he'll come back from injury stronger like Schu did in 1999

[SGWilko]

I get the feeling that McLaren could suffer more than Red Bull after the EBDs are banned. McLaren are using the diffuser technology to cover up the aero shortcomings of their car. Remember at Silverstone how slow McLaren were.

Depends if they build a 5h!t car........

......again!

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Depends if they build a 5h!t car........

......again!

The last 3 cars McLaren built have been poor.

2009 - only won races because they were the only team to master KERS and Hamilton was in great form that year.
2010 - only won races because of Buttons tyre decisions and the F-duct on fast circuits
2011 - lets look at each win individually:
China - win was mostly down to Lewis saving a set of tyres in qualifying
Canada - win was down to Buttons skill on slicks on a wet track/rare error from Vettel
Germany - a fast car that Lewis extracted the most out of
Hungary - Button again mastering changeable conditions
Japan - They had the fastest car

Red Bull have done a better job each year and Vettel has got better with each year.

[Mark]

The rules aren't likely to change very much for next year so Red Bull will still be the top team, perhaps Ferrari and McLaren can sort out their issues and give them a run for their money. But the problem is that in F1 you have to run to stand still and Red Bull have quite a head start. So in many ways McLaren and Ferrari have to do an even better job than Red Bull over the winter, just to get on level terms with them.

A saving grace is perhaps the theory that there is a theoretical maximum you can get out of the F1 rules at any one time, as you get close to the maximum the rate of improvement decreases, is Red Bull getting close?

[Bezza]

I have no problem with one team dominating, but what bothers me is the lack of two drivers with the ability (yes, ability) to make it a good fight between them.

Webber this season has been embarrassingly bad, and made Vettel look even better. I do not believe Vettel is a cut above Alonso or Hamilton - he may be equal, but not better.

Hopefully McLaren, Ferrari and maybe Mercedes can provide a better race next year. If not, then it will be 2011 all over again, because there is no chance of Webber doing anything.

2011 has been a massive "what might have been" for me. The rules have improved the show certainly, and some individual races have been great, but Red Bull's dominant car, Webber's lack of pace and other drivers seemingly scared to take on Vettel (see Hamilton at Korea on the first lap, yet he races 100% with Webber ?!) have meant 2011 has been a let down for me.

I just want 2011 to finish so we can hopefully have a better 2012. Unfortunately, I fear 2012 may be like 2002 !

[Bagwan]

Webber is a giant amongst jockeys .

[jens]

The 2011 season has indeed been a huge success for Vettel and looking at history, it is right up there with 2002 and 2004 as the most 'perfect' dominations in Formula One history in terms of maximizing results. Let's take a look. In 2002/04/11 we have had three different points systems, but if we calculated them all into one (let's take 10-8-6-...), then we would have the following information:
2002: Schumacher - 156 pts/17 races
2004: Schumacher - 148 pts/18 races
2011: Vettel - 153 pts/17 races (so far)

The only thing that Vettel misses from Schumacher's 2002 season is finishing on the podium in all races. Seriously after that year and especially after recent seasons of extremely tight competition I have thought we could never see that happening again, but Vettel has come oh-so-close to repeating that feat, missing out only in Germany by finishing 4th.

As for future records and questions whether Vettel can repeat Schumacher's incredible run of success in 00-04, then I have to say that current Red Bull really reminds me of that superb team of Team Schumacher and in terms of personnel they look very stable too. Surely after 2001 people were asking that Ferrari can't stay at the top forever, Williams, Michelin, new car manufacturers were coming up strong. But they stayed there. I wouldn't be surprised if Vettel kept on winning WDC's for a few more years. Certainly current Ferrari doesn't look particularly convincing, they haven't improved their design team much either, so they may remain in mediocrity. McLaren looks more promising, but remains to be seen if they have it in them to really beat RBR over a full season. Mercedes has hired some new staff, but if they ever were to make it to the titles, it would still take a couple of years.

What also helps Red Bull's case is that the rules will remain relatively stable for the next two years as well. And we have a fair bit restrictions, which means that RBR has fewer fears of missing out an important advantage. For example we don't have a tyre war, which for instance really cost Ferrari in both '03 and '05 after dominant seasons. Also we have engine freeze, so RBR doesn't need to fear that Renault suddenly falls 100 hp behind others. So it is really up to the Milton Keynes factory to deliver an excellent car - bigger emphasis is on what is produced in-house. Imagine McLaren and Ferrari were on a different tyre manufacturer than RBR - I think in this case the possibility of RBR's domination coming to an end would be much bigger.

I get the feeling that McLaren could suffer more than Red Bull after the EBDs are banned. McLaren are using the diffuser technology to cover up the aero shortcomings of their car. Remember at Silverstone how slow McLaren were.

I don't think McLaren was that slow at Silverstone, because Hamilton was on course for a Top3 finish had he not run out of fuel. And the Silverstone case doesn't mean much, because the 2012 cars will be designed differently. In the same way it could have been said during 2010 that Ferrari will gain or Red Bull will suffer in 2011, because Pirelli suits Ferrari's relative "kindness" to tyres or RBR hasn't had any experience with KERS. But once the new rules come to force, design teams will adapt to make the best out of the situation.

[SGWilko]

Every time I see this thread on the home page I think of an image of a spotty 14yr old Vettel holding some old vinyl LP's of Kraftwerk and that bird with the hairy pits that sung about Red Balloons......

[SGWilko]

Nena!

[kfzmeister]

Take a look at 2009, no strange mappings, no funny diffuser, and yet very close to the Brawn GP car with is double diffuser.
There's more to a F1 car then that.

Oh, but RB DID copy the diffusor!
A simple thing like changing the mapping dices up the order. Silverstone anyone?