Rally2 (ex-R5) News

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Skoda Azores recap...

https://youtu.be/xtVH54YsBYo

Nice comments from Loeb on the Rally2 car.

[PLuto]

A financially-devasating pandemic, runnng a WRC Team and creating a new Rally1 car all had an impact on this.

Plus most other Rally2 manufacturers only had that car to concentrate on (Skoda, VW Polo, Citroen C3).

Edit: Fourmaux is confident of the Fiesta's potential...

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2023/wrc...ly2s-potental/

These are only excuses. Rally2 market should be important for M-Sport and they can make a good money from it, but understimated the situation. Car was not really prepared for the outings when it debuted (mainly due to lack of test mileage and also drivers who were testing it) and since that time not so bid development was made. The weakest part of the car is without any doubts the engine.

[PLuto]

I wonder who is paying for the Azores starts. I don't think any of those two are bringing funds.

Azores organizers to try to get the rally back to ERC?

They dont need to spend money to FIA and promoter, so they have used them for drivers...

[PLuto]

But I would say Veiby is on a higher level than Solans or Moura. Veiby has won in WRC2.

Winning WRC2 round doesnt mean that you are better

[Fast Eddie WRC]

These are only excuses. Rally2 market should be important for M-Sport and they can make a good money from it, but understimated the situation. Car was not really prepared for the outings when it debuted (mainly due to lack of test mileage and also drivers who were testing it) and since that time not so bid development was made. The weakest part of the car is without any doubts the engine.

You say excuses but they are real reasons. And having other priorities are genuine too.

And who would prefer M-Sport making a great Rally2 car but leaving WRC1 down to 2 Teams ?

[Walach]

It is actually a valid point.
Rally2, rally3, rally4 and rally5 all can bring money back.
Everyone can see the M-Sport pattern. They make the car early to be first on the market and have profit (no matter how underdeveloped the car is, like fiesta rally3). Then comes the competition, M-Sport car fall behind because it is not developed anymore and becomes inferior.
Rinse and repeat.

It happened with original Fiesta R5, it happened with Fiesta Rally4/5, and I wonder what can possibly happen now that Renault is releasing Clio Rally3.

All of these are customer oriented cars that can bring money, and all of these were quite quickly abandoned by M-Sport due to "other priorities." No wonder customers are choosing other brands if this is the approach, is it? After all, the car sales numbers of aforementioned cars dont lie.

You could argue that WRC1 is actually down to two teams anyway, given how much of a threat they are to Toyota and Hyundai in the fight for titles and not just single rally wins.

[ouvreur]

It is actually a valid point.
Rally2, rally3, rally4 and rally5 all can bring money back.
Everyone can see the M-Sport pattern. They make the car early to be first on the market and have profit (no matter how underdeveloped the car is, like fiesta rally3). Then comes the competition, M-Sport car fall behind because it is not developed anymore and becomes inferior.
Rinse and repeat.

It happened with original Fiesta R5, it happened with Fiesta Rally4/5, and I wonder what can possibly happen now that Renault is releasing Clio Rally3.

All of these are customer oriented cars that can bring money, and all of these were quite quickly abandoned by M-Sport due to "other priorities." No wonder customers are choosing other brands if this is the approach, is it? After all, the car sales numbers of aforementioned cars dont lie.

You could argue that WRC1 is actually down to two teams anyway, given how much of a threat they are to Toyota and Hyundai in the fight for titles and not just single rally wins.

I think that's an overly harsh assessment. M-Sport are essentially a private company, reliant on profit from car and parts sales, competing against the motorsport departments of OEM manufacturers for whom profitability would be nice, but doesn't really matter so much. Simply put, M-Sport and their Polish subsidiary have to make a profit on every car and part (FIA price capped items aside) that leaves their factory. For others, it just isn't important. If you judge M-Sport by their standards, of course they look weak. But when Skoda decide rallying doesn't matter to them any more, how many more Fabia Rally2s do you think will roll out of Mlada Boleslav?

Even if what you describe really is M-Sport's business model, can you blame them? It's pretty smart. Get in early, provide a good, reliable product that's decent value for money, sell plenty of them, then when the manufacturers come along with their huge budgets and (arguably) better / more developed cars, concentrate on being the first with the next product. Instead of trying - and likely failing - to play Skoda and Hyundai at their own game, they stick to what they're good at. Their projects are never abandoned - you can still ring them up and they'll help you get parts for your '05 Focus, Fiesta S2000 or Mk1 Fiesta R5. Their customer service is legendary. Try doing that with a 2005 Impreza world rally car, a Peugeot 207 S2000, or a Citroen DS3 R5.

At the end of the day, for the majority of their customers, it's a hobby. They're making rally cars, not pacemakers or firefighting equipment, if they break more easily or don't perform as well as the competition, it isn't the end of the world. I don't see why some people get so touchy about it - it's an open market, nobody puts a gun to a customer's head and insists they buy a Fiesta of any description.

With all of that said, it would be nice for the market and the sport to have M-Sport back to their competitive best. They seem to have turned a corner with the Puma, and they're working on upgrades for the Fiesta Rally2.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I listened to a podcast recently featuring Matt Edwards the 3x BRC Champion and rally driver tutor.

It was fascinating how he confirmed that all Rally2 cars are excellent and very fast (yes even the Fiesta !) and that it's only drivers at the very top level that extract the last 1% of performance that can find any real difference.

For the mamy average and amateur drivers it's more about cost, servicing and parts availability than pure performance.

[PLuto]

I listened to a podcast recently featuring Matt Edwards the 3x BRC Champion and rally driver tutor.

It was fascinating how he confirmed that all Rally2 cars are excellent and very fast (yes even the Fiesta !) and that it's only drivers at the very top level that extract the last 1% of performance that can find any real difference.

For the mamy average and amateur drivers it's more about cost, servicing and parts availability than pure performance.

Yes, all cars are very similar and it is mainly on the driver. Fiesta is strong car with quite good chassis and suspension. But its weakness is engine, since beginning...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Yes, all cars are very similar and it is mainly on the driver. Fiesta is strong car with quite good chassis and suspension. But its weakness is engine, since beginning...

And a strong car engine can often help an average driver make up for their own weakness...