Rally2 (ex-R5) News

[Mirek]

I don't think we can estimate cost differences. We don't know the regulations (also price level set by FIA which is applied for example for S2000), numbers for production, in fact almost nothing...

[OldF]

can t understand what you mean mate.

Which part?

[dimviii]

Which part?

all

[OldF]

all

I compared (post #35) gearboxes with different amount of gears and torque (R2 having 5 gears and coping less torque compared to a 6 gear R3 gearbox). Then I just wondered how much coping with higher torque affect the price compared to more gears (5 gears vs. 6 gears).

In the second part I was referring to my previous post (#35) where I said:

“Another would be if the engine could be kept standard but would the standard engine cope with a power increase from about 150 hp to about 300 hp.”

Instead I should have said:

“Another would be if the engine could be kept standard but would the standard engine cope with the higher torque”.

Torque instead of power because it’s the torque that counts.

[dimviii]

I compared (post #35) gearboxes with different amount of gears and torque (R2 having 5 gears and coping less torque compared to a 6 gear R3 gearbox). Then I just wondered how much coping with higher torque affect the price compared to more gears (5 gears vs. 6 gears)..

Now i understand
you can t measure it because there are plenty of factors that affect the price.
simple example....for evo 9-10 a 5speed dog-box ,you can buy as new from 5000 euros to 10000 euros.Depents from the manufacture.
sequential dog boxes for evo 9-10 start from 8000 to 12000 euros.
All of them have the same gears(5 or 6speed) all straight cut,all can cope with torque at wrc level,and plenty of them have been worked perfectly at 500-600-800 bhp time attack cars.Also the ''cheap'' ones.

In the second part I was referring to my previous post (#35) where I said:

“Another would be if the engine could be kept standard but would the standard engine cope with a power increase from about 150 hp to about 300 hp.”

Instead I should have said:

“Another would be if the engine could be kept standard but would the standard engine cope with the higher torque”.

Torque instead of power because it’s the torque that counts.

normaly a factory build turbocharged engine can cope a lot of power more.Again depents from engine to engine.
Example,a oem evo 9 -10engine totally standart(oem headgasket,bolts everything) can cope easily at 400-430 bhp and 500-600nm torque.In standart form evo engine rated at 280-300 bhp.Not just for rallies,also for streetcars also.
So we have a about 30% more power safely.
but you can t have a rule for every engine.Some are much more bullet proof than others.
Evo engines are very strong internally,can t be an example for every engine.
weakest point at oem engines when you want plenty of torque is the rods.Because of antilag, oem small turbos,plus restrictor, they produce a LOT of torque at low-mid revs.
But you can pass it,with a homologation just for new rods.Mitsubishi did it, for evo 8mr-9-10. the ''new'' rods were installed direct from factory at newer models,when they saw that the first batch rods couldn t cope with grN torque.

[OldF]

Now i understand
you can t measure it because there are plenty of factors that affect the price.
simple example....for evo 9-10 a 5speed dog-box ,you can buy as new from 5000 euros to 10000 euros.Depents from the manufacture.
sequential dog boxes for evo 9-10 start from 8000 to 12000 euros.
All of them have the same gears(5 or 6speed) all straight cut,all can cope with torque at wrc level,and plenty of them have been worked perfectly at 500-600-800 bhp time attack cars.Also the ''cheap'' ones.


normaly a factory build turbocharged engine can cope a lot of power more.Again depents from engine to engine.
Example,a oem evo 9 -10engine totally standart(oem headgasket,bolts everything) can cope easily at 400-430 bhp and 500-600nm torque.In standart form evo engine rated at 280-300 bhp.Not just for rallies,also for streetcars also.
So we have a about 30% more power safely.
but you can t have a rule for every engine.Some are much more bullet proof than others.
Evo engines are very strong internally,can t be an example for every engine.
weakest point at oem engines when you want plenty of torque is the rods.Because of antilag, oem small turbos,plus restrictor, they produce a LOT of torque at low-mid revs.
But you can pass it,with a homologation just for new rods.Mitsubishi did it, for evo 8mr-9-10. the ''new'' rods were installed direct from factory at newer models,when they saw that the first batch rods couldn t cope with grN torque.

Thanks Dimviii,

That’s what I’ve thought, the evo engines are very robust already as standard. This what I had in mine when I wonder if standard 1.6T would cope with higher power.

I also read on a site that the standard evo intercooler can cope with 500 hp.

Google Kääntäjä

[dimviii]

I also read on a site that the standard evo intercooler can cope with 500 hp.

depents a lot from outside temperature.In Greece for example on a dynometer with good ventilation/fans when outside temperatures are about 25 celsious or more you are going to see decrease in power after 3-4 runs.All this at 380-400 bhp and 500nm.Depents from the pressure you have on turbo a lot.Now you can imagine what happens at 30 or 35 celsious that are common in Greece,Italy Portugal Spain etc.In Greece we use to change the intercooler to uprated ones,even with stock turbos and not so extreme turbo absolut pressures at road cars.In grN is forbidden.
generally 500 bhp is a lot for the standart intercooler .You are not going to have problem at engine,but you are going to loose power after some minutes of hard driving.Air Inlet temperature are going to climb after some minutes.On a dyno,with just 2-3 runs and low exterior temps is ok,but at road ,its not ok.

[Gordini]

Makes sense, does your scources also tell you that all manufacurers have recieved a 100% complete and approved by FIA set of R4T tech regs to build from ?

Can someone confirm the 100% finished regulations by fia?

[Mirek]

I'm almost sure they are not completely finished.

[Mirek]

I heard bodykit and wide suspension would be used for R4T after all.