The most overrated rally driver?

[Plan9]

Good list Plan9, everyone has their own opinions (as you'll see!), I think deeper research is always required. And there isn't much we can do in that area sadly.

Alister McRae - 1 WRC drive in Subaru where he was going for the podium until he DNFed. Hyundai was a dud car, yet he was still able to get acceptable results, 6th in Portugal and 4th in GB in 2001, could have led in NZ 2001, but team decided to make McRae lose time for road position and give Eriksson the lead as McRae had a better chance of winning. This is arguably one of the most competitive championships in that era, along with 2002 (apart from Gronholm factor) and in 2003.

2002 at Mitsubishi: the car was a disaster, Alister did really well in Sweden and once the car was sufficiently well developed he did drive it well in New Zealand 2003. And we can not learn anything from the Proton. The car is a complete failure, poorly designed. Also the nature of the APRC rallies generally don't suit the S2000 car. New Caledonia and Japan are probably the best, but the S2000 has a shorter gearbox, meaning they are on the redline a fair amount, unlike the Group N cars which can achieve 220kph. The Satria is lucky to get to 200 :P

I think Alister may also have suffered because, like Ralf Schumacher, he was involved in a high profile sport next to a highly rated big brother. I used to watch and read RallyXS on T.V. and there were always comments about Alister's lack of speed compared to Colin's. I called him over-rated as he seemed to always get good, well funded drives with Hyundai and Mitsubishi and did not manage to get the most out of them.

Rally XS once had an interesting story about Colin and Alister forming a McRae WRT and using factory Subarus. I am still hopeful that something involving Alister in the WRC will eventuate.

Guy Wilks - is definitely over-rated. Especially now that he drives for Peugeot UK. He has driven shockingly, his crash in Sanremo this year was nothing short of shocking. Blamed it on the conditions when in reality he wasn't listening to the co-driver and came into the corner in 4th gear when he should have been in 2nd/low revs 3rd. Now he is a man full of excuses. It's harsh to judge him on not finding the sponsorship for a Subaru drive though. Running a WRC car is a fair lot more expensive than PWRC, we are talking a million+ euro easy for some European rounds. He just got squeezed out when the 2 car teams returned in 2004. He might have had a drive 2006 otherwise.

I think it was a shame that during the 2004-06 period there were not as many customers as there are now. I think one of the bigger gentlemen operations could have included him quite successfully. I always though Subaru was going to have a B team like Ford. But of course it did not eventuate.

Armin Schwarz - as much as people bag him, he is one of those drivers who had the talent, but didn't quite get it together whether it was his driving or the car's fault. Those early Toyota days were fast, 5th on his first ever Monte Carlo. We then don't give him credit for helping to develop the early Lancers with Eriksson, 3 podiums in 9 starts. Played third fiddle to Kankkunen and Auriol in 1995. 1997 was 4th after 4 rounds, then had two bad rallies on tarmac and was replaced by Kankkunen, which is kind of crap to compare when you have the choice between the most successful driver at the time and Schwarz :P Then he moved to Skoda, and he did really well considering he was developing a huge car, which was great on the rough, but arguably his performance in 2001 Monte Carlo is stuff of legend, fighting for a podium finish against the heavy weights. At Hyundai we saw glimpses of brilliance, he was then getting old, and the car wasn't very good. Back to Skoda where he further developed the Fabia. We never saw it at the time, but he, Auriol and Gardemeister developed quite a weapon when the likes of McRae, Duval (Monte 06) and a young Kopecky took the wheel. So I would say underrated. One of the best technical minds in the sport.

Freddy Loix - Hard to say. Great in the Celica, and some fine performances in the Corolla. Being part of a factory team quietened some of his desire I feel. Yet when he got to Hyundai, he really did have some fine performances. Battling for a podium in Sweden 2002 with a broken leg always springs to mind as one of the bravest drives by any driver. In 2004, he was unlucky with the 2 car rule. I reckon he would have been kept on if there was the need for a third driver, or Rovanpera would have filled third spot for gravel, Robert on tarmac. Inconsistency was his enemy with some great drives at Mitsubishi (remember 99 when he fended off Burns and Kankkunen in Spain by over 2 minutes?), Hyundai and now even in the Fabia S2000. I think he really made some wrong choices in teams in the end.

Bruno Thiry - Somewhere between Schwarz and Loix. He is like Liatti in some senses. Never really been given the credit he deserves. He was wild, yet very deserving of his drives. Lots of points finishes for Ford in 1996/96 and again in 98. His drives with Skoda weren't the best, yet put him in the privateer Corolla or 206, and his performances were still mixing with the top guys. Not overrated, nor underrated. Solid driver I feel, took the full time poor team rather than privateering in a decent car which cost him in the end.

Petter Solberg - his driving from 2001 to 2005 was nothing short of exhilarating. First he let himself down through mistakes, then the car came into play. 2004 was really tough, as he had been previously mentored by Makinen for two years, and formerly by McRae in his Ford days. Although he was WRC champ, Petter wasn't ready to mentor in 2004. He did a lot of growing up in 2003, but almost too much. I feel 2004 may have been different if Makinen stayed on in an advisory role, and/or Subaru hired Colin McRae instead of Mikko Hirvonen. Could have been one of the worst decisions made in the modern era of the WRC in driver signings. I feel this would have taken pressure off Solberg and let him drive a bit more naturally and not be as stressed and intent on winning in 2004 rather than consistency which got him to the 2003 drivers title. His patch of 3 retirements in a row in 2004 really sapped his confidence. Then he had to develop Atkinson, who had the same Solberg-itis of fast but crashing, a hard thing to fix, then a car which was uncompetitive with numerous niggling problems. His latest years have been dogged by second rate Citroens. If Petter moved to Mini or VW, or paired up with Block in a Ford and freed up his money resources a bit we might see Petter back up there.

very insightful comments about Petter. I agree absolutely. I have to say he was hyped a bit too much by the media though.

Why did they hire Mikko to Subaru after all? It was a shocking decision. I think they needed to find a quick replacement as Burns obviously could not take up the 3 year deal he signed with Prodrive in 2003. What was the official reason that Colin was not hired? Was it something to do with the abolition of 3 car teams?

Its very popular to team Block and Solberg up at the moment. Does Block have the money?

Most underrated driver I believe is one we have forgotten, Manfred Stohl. His achievement in 2006 with the 307 WRC run by his 'OMV Bozian Peugeot Norway' was a major collaborative effort yet he did make that car competitive, and was already a veteran of the sport at the time. Got dogged with a slower Xsara in 2007 probably to ensure that the C4 of Sordo would not be pressured into mistakes and be beaten by the Xsara on pace alone, that would have been a disaster.

Is Matt Wilson overrated in my books? He doesn't even rate a mention in my books

My final parting note is this...

WRC is a sport of high variance in conditions. In order to become a 'successful' driver, more is needed than just driving skill. Driver attitude & confidence, co-driver ability, co-driver's psychological impact on the driver in the car, the car, tyres, the team personnel, the level of development and change of the car during the season, the financial status of the driver if self funding and the financial status of the team they competed in, decisions made on where drivers went (long term security of low rank manufacturer versus short term gain of privateer in a good car). Many of you would have changed your opinion of Antony Warmbold since he visited these forums, and scenarios like his would have been played out many times before. So it is very hard to pick on drivers without the knowledge insiders have.

This has been very useful!

[Doon]

you still confuse the meaning of the word overated with someone being slow, no good, a tourist ects....you can be a tourist and still be underated, and a multiple champion and be overated and visa versa.

Are you saying that Mark Higgins and Craig Breen are overrated and just tourists? Only a question, please dont get offended and have a rant at me.

[Plan9]

Haha, why about the British Rally Champions? Higgins dominated for years (ones where he had funding for a decent car) and won in 3 types of car, F2, WRC and Grp N. Is there any more of a rounded Champion? Nobody can say he wasn't quick.

Well in an earlier post I made some comments about the 2001 World Champ and I got some rants back. I was not at all disrespectful of this dearly missed competitor. I like Higgins as well. I don't think it would be to late for him to get some WRC action in a top car. To be honest if I recall Malcolm Wilson wasn't to shabby either in the British championship.

[N.O.T]

Are you saying that Mark Higgins and Craig Breen are overrated and just tourists? Only a question, please dont get offended and have a rant at me.

it wasn't aimed towards you, i just see that the general trend of the thread tends towards naming good and bad drivers.

As for the names mentioned i think both are very good local rally drivers nothing more nothing less.

[Mitch555]

Guy did get the money together, but Subaru pulled out of the WRC the day before he was due to sign the deal with Prodrive!

Cheers man, didn't quite know that

Since we are talking about Italian drivers, I think they might be the most underrated country. Only Liatti and Galli have got into factory teams recently yet they've had a large number of drivers at a decent level. Note some of these drivers do overlap in periods, but only Liatti, Fiorio & Biason I've listed twice

Late 80s
Biason, Cerrato, Zanussi, Tabaton, Fiorio, Alessandrini

1990s
Biason, Aghini, Liatti, Fiorio, Cunico, Pianezzola (not as well known)

2000s
Liatti, Galli, Andreucci, Longhi, Travaglia, Navarra, Rossetti, Basso

Lots of involvement in teams like Aimont and Jolly Club, however most never got full time factory drives. Biason, Liatti and Galli are the most prominent with Navarra, Travaglia and Basso having done IRC with Abarth early on. A lot of talent has come out of Italy in the last 20 or so years.

[Sladden]

"Same can be said for Auriol in my opinion ( the man finished 3rd in 1992 - with 6 victories and one 1 point finish ! ) .."

Totaly agree. Not only good results but very spectacular...all or nothing attacker like Mäkinen and McRae in the 1990s. A winner well into his 40s. But is left in the shadow a bit...

[havk]

When looking at this year IRC results I'm thinking of Toni Gardemasister. Really disappointing results, I expected much better results from him. The similar thing can say about Patrik Sandell.

[Barreis]

Cheers man, didn't quite know that

Since we are talking about Italian drivers, I think they might be the most underrated country. Only Liatti and Galli have got into factory teams recently yet they've had a large number of drivers at a decent level. Note some of these drivers do overlap in periods, but only Liatti, Fiorio & Biason I've listed twice

Late 80s
Biason, Cerrato, Zanussi, Tabaton, Fiorio, Alessandrini

1990s
Biason, Aghini, Liatti, Fiorio, Cunico, Pianezzola (not as well known)

2000s
Liatti, Galli, Andreucci, Longhi, Travaglia, Navarra, Rossetti, Basso

Lots of involvement in teams like Aimont and Jolly Club, however most never got full time factory drives. Biason, Liatti and Galli are the most prominent with Navarra, Travaglia and Basso having done IRC with Abarth early on. A lot of talent has come out of Italy in the last 20 or so years.

I can tell you that on the smallest rally in Italy guys are driving like it's the last event in their life. Pedal to da metal.

[Nornbugger]

it wasn't aimed towards you, i just see that the general trend of the thread tends towards naming good and bad drivers.

As for the names mentioned i think both are very good local rally drivers nothing more nothing less.

given that any lad setting out has less than a 1% chance of making it it is quite safe to diss young lads as you just have done with Breen, the odds are against him, but he has shown well for a lad of his age, take a minute (you seem to have plenty of time) and learn about people before you knock them

[N.O.T]

Although i have plenty of time i prefer to spend it wisely and not on never beens and local heros...

next time someone turns it personal i report...i am fed up with everyone getting offended when i say something about a driver/boyfriend who isn't just mindless praise...