Car vs Public Transport

[Mark]

Isn't the problem at the moment is that there are now far too many vested interests, especially in terms of the banks leasing the rolling stock, that taking the lot of it back into public ownership would be an almighty struggle!

IMO for the railways to get their costs down and do things properly - as they were saying on the news today, it's not the train companies that are the issue, but the ROSCOs (i.e. the companies that actually own the trains and lease them to the train operating companies) that are the issue, if we were to bring those back into public ownership again, such that the government actually owns the trains, we'd be on a better footing. But, the whole point of having them in the first place is so that someone other than the government can borrow the money needed to purchase new rolling stock - so there's no easy answers.

[MrMetro]

This makes for interesting reading: http://www.firstcrapitalconnect.co.u...l-connect.html

[52Paddy]

Interesting thread - for the record: my journey from home (Dublin) to college (Limerick) is 120 miles and is one I make every couple of weekends. I usually stay put in one area or the other for a long period of time.

By car -

Petrol: costs less than €20 (about €18).
Time: 90mins

By coach

Bus into coach station: €1.80
Coach: €11
Total: €12.80
Time: 3-4 hours

It costs me about €6 more to use the car but, factoring in comfort, flexibility of time and ability to bring the luggage I need (usually comprises a few instruments, bag of clothes and a backpack) this is a worthy investment. If I compare the train, it's much, much worse:

Tram ticket to station: €2.10
Train ticket: €15 (only at certain times, usually last train)
Taxi home from train station: €8 (Getting the last train means I arrive in Limerick at midnight and public transport has finished up)
Total: €25.10

If I get an earlier train in order to get down to Limerick before the buses finish up, I would have to pay €29 for the train ticket!

I'll have the car, thank you very much

[MattL]

Interesting thread this - and a distinct lack of London (or other city) workers!

My current daily commute is small and working for a car manufacturer, I am biased. However...I spent a couple of years working as an account manager, which meant being on the road for hours every day, returning home to 100s of emails etc. The area I covered included London, and I loved the days when I visited customers in London, as I could use the train journeys to and from London to work.

I accept this is a different scenario to most for several reasons (all mileage was on business and therefore reimbursed; my working day included the time in the car; I could manage my diary to travel into London outside of rush hour and therefore guarantee a seat on the train to enable me to get the laptop out), but there are some real advantages to public transport.

[Mark]

Of course most people don't work in London. But there's a rare example of a city where public transport wins, just due to the sheer size of the place and the amount of people there, driving in and out isn't practical, so the train is the sensible option, even then it's crazily crowded.

One thing those of us outside London have the perception of is that it seems the transport planners in Whitehall think that all cities have as good an external rail connection as London, and an internal pubilc transport system as good as London, when this is very far from being the case. Which is why the likes of a congestion charging zone isn't practical anywhere else.

[52Paddy]

I work in Dublin city centre as a bike courier and this, in my opinion, is the best way around the city. It's quicker than the bus (if you're half decent on a bike) and you don't need to worry about traffic or parking. Parking in Dublin is a nightmare and not free. The street system is a bit awkward in places and, unless you're carrying a lot of luggage or the weather is miserable, the car is unnecessary. In line with what Matt has said above, public transport does have its place in society. Unfortunately, the service in Dublin is not punctual so you cannot always rely on buses if you have a specific time plan.

[BDunnell]

One thing those of us outside London have the perception of is that it seems the transport planners in Whitehall think that all cities have as good an external rail connection as London, and an internal pubilc transport system as good as London, when this is very far from being the case.

I wish there were some transport planners in Whitehall! A bit more (sensible) central control might be a very good thing.

[MrMetro]

Central government is not always good for transport. An example being the ill-fated London Underground public-private partnership (PPP). Metronet and Tube lines went bust and had to be bailed out by the taxpayer. PPP was not the idea of Transport for London (TfL), but rather the Labour government, who insisted that it would be better for updating the tube and better value for the taxpayer.

A lot of the work being carried out on the Tube today was meant to be completed earlier, but the failing of Metronet and Tube Lines prevented this.

[Daniel]

Central government is not always good for transport. An example being the ill-fated London Underground public-private partnership (PPP). Metronet and Tube lines went bust and had to be bailed out by the taxpayer. PPP was not the idea of Transport for London (TfL), but rather the Labour government, who insisted that it would be better for updating the tube and better value for the taxpayer.

A lot of the work being carried out on the Tube today was meant to be completed earlier, but the failing of Metronet and Tube Lines prevented this.

But the sort of idiots you get working in local government aren't any better and having multiple groups of these people makes for a fragmented solution.

[Erki]

By car:
distance: 5.5km
fuel: 0.44L (at 8L/100km average)
fuel cost: €0.52 (at €1.19/L)
time: haven't measured, most likely about 11 minutes with a stop at a kiosk to buy an energy drink to kick start my day.

By bus:
walk to bus stop: ~8 minutes
bus drive: ~8 minutes
walk to workplace: ~5 minutes
total: ~21 minutes
cost: €0.64 and no energy drink

This obviously doesn't factor in additional costs like the car itself, insurance, tyres, repair/service work.. parking! (I live in the middle of the city).

Many people around here seem to have complaints about public transport and some of them surely are justified, but at least for me the system works well enough.. unless I stay out later than the last bus leaves.