2013 cars: Back to the future?

[Bolton Midnight]

I thought at first the amount of time full throttle could be used would be some how limited, thought that didn't sound v safe.

But if the car relies on air passing under it, won't it still suffer once it is in the hole created by the car in front?

And will the sidepods be narrower at the bottom than further up, as they will look a bit ugly.

No front wings, skinny rear wing, huge slicks and 1000hp - sort the men from the boys - more power than grip is usually a good recipe for a race.

[wedge]

Some good stuff there. Looks like it could improve racing aswell if done right. I just hope the straight line speeds of the cars remain pretty similar and the cars don't have small enough wings to make them look like oval spec CART cars. I always preffered thos machines in road course form.

Just a question to throw out there; Will the new floor tunnels effect the sidepods of the car? Back in 1982 cars had sidepods that went right up to the front wheels almost, Yet when all the underfloor stuff was banned we saw a change in sidepod design, which went as far back as the Brabham BMW of 1983 with the pods stuck right at the back. Todays sidepods come as far foward as the front of the cockpit with a clear gap between the front of them and the wheels. I'm wondering if this would need to be changed.

There's rules on the side impact tests, IIRC. One of the best ways of getting the best out of grounds effect was from the sidepods sucking up air and acting a bit like louvres but it seems they're imitating CART/Indycar limiting DF from the design of the floor and dimensions of the venturi tunnels.

But if the car relies on air passing under it, won't it still suffer once it is in the hole created by the car in front?

Grounds effect produces lesser of a turbulent wake than the wings/vortice cleaning-bodywork appendages.

[Mark]

Less of turbulent wake plus the downforce it generates is much less affected by dirty air therefore a following car will lose a much smaller proportion of the total downforce.

[Bolton Midnight]

I seem to recall talk of dirty air etc at the peak of the ground effect cars, but maybe how it was back then was not as bad as now.

I think the fact everyone still remembers Arnoux and Villeneuve in 79 rather demonstrates that lack of overtaking certainly isn't just a modern phenomenon.

[TheFamousEccles]

No front wings, skinny rear wing, huge slicks and 1000hp - sort the men from the boys - more power than grip is usually a good recipe for a race.

Couldn't agree more. Yeehar - looking forward to this eventuating.

[cosmicpanda]

I think the fact everyone still remembers Arnoux and Villeneuve in 79 rather demonstrates that lack of overtaking certainly isn't just a modern phenomenon.

I agree - you only need to dig around in old race reports and driver interviews to find a few discussions of a lack of overtaking. It is, however, ridiculous when you have a car 2 seconds per lap faster than the one in front and yet unable to pass.

I think one of the things that leads to passing and excitement that is very difficult to put into regulations is driver error - it's why I think Monaco is such a success every year. If you made exactly a track of similar twistiness but with Tilke runoffs, it would become boring and artificial, as it would have lost the challenge presented by the walls. Fast and difficult corners are another thing that adds character to circuits - slow or more technical ones are all very well and of course necessary, but to take an example: the defining character of Silverstone is speed and fast corners. When they put in the twisty arena section at the end of the lap, it rather ruined that part of the track. It's better now, I think, which makes it one of the rare occasions that I'm pleased with a track redesign! This is why it frustrates me when you see press releases from new tracks that boast of a mix of corners, since unless there's serious elevation changes, corners for the sake of corners are boring. (Elevation does make things interesting; the middle sections of Monaco and Bathurst and the first section of Instanbul come to mind.)

Fortunately Tilke seems to be moving towards bringing walls closer to the circuit again, as seen in Korea and Abu Dhabi, but his 'longest straight in F1 + hairpin' philosophy seems flawed. He's tried it out at every single track he's designed and it's never really worked, when will he learn?

[Sonic]

I seem to recall talk of dirty air etc at the peak of the ground effect cars, but maybe how it was back then was not as bad as now.

I think the fact everyone still remembers Arnoux and Villeneuve in 79 rather demonstrates that lack of overtaking certainly isn't just a modern phenomenon.

And Gilles was probably one of the most vocal about the difficulties of passing (even then). I definitely remember reading a quote from him stating that with the level of grip the cars were capable of producing they needed triple the amount of horsepower to make the cars spectacular and able to pass.

I think it has to be remembered that overtaking is difficult - in any category - even without wings, and it should be difficult in F1 too. I'd happily take four great moves a race over four a lap engineered by the regulations.

[call_me_andrew]

How are big slicks going to separate the men from the boys? More foot to the floor racing?

(Elevation does make things interesting; the middle sections of Monaco and Bathurst and the first section of Instanbul come to mind.)

Fortunately Tilke seems to be moving towards bringing walls closer to the circuit again, as seen in Korea and Abu Dhabi, but his 'longest straight in F1 + hairpin' philosophy seems flawed. He's tried it out at every single track he's designed and it's never really worked, when will he learn?

I think elevation has more to do with it than anything else. Take the Corkscrew at Laguna Seca; without the drop in elevation, it's just another chicane.

Looking at satellite pictures of Abu Dhabi, I realized that Tilke doubled back a few times just to make the track longer.

[Dragan-F1]

It's terrible!!!
The best F1 cars was at season 2008.

[Mark]

It's terrible!!!
The best F1 cars was at season 2008.

You cannot be serious!