Sissy Southerners

[donKey jote]

Frankfurt is closed again today and Schiphol... well I'll be able to tell you first hand tomorrow
NOT looking forward to Xmas in a coffee shop

[Rudy Tamasz]

I made two flights amid a mighty snowfall last week and had no problems whatsoever. Only once we had to spend about an hour on the runway when airport services were defrosting the plane.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Frankfurt is closed again today and Schiphol... well I'll be able to tell you first hand tomorrow
NOT looking forward to Xmas in a coffee shop

The last I had seen in the Monday "National Post" out of Toronto had a story saying Amsterdam and Frankfurt were seeing some traffic, but a lot of Europe bound flights for other centers were ending up in Munich.

Some parts of Europe who see Winter are just better equipped to handle things, but judging by Daniel's pictures of his car in the snow of Wales, it is a real good winter storm hitting most of Europe....

[Dave B]

We in the UK seem to have this view that we are unique in being affected by snow, when the rest of the world copes perfectly. That's clearly not true, but it doesn't stop people having a moan.

I think LHR's problem stems from running so close to maximum capacity at all times, thanks in no small part to successive governments' failure to invest in runways in the south-east for fear of upsetting anyone.

Less busy airports have the opportunity to clear the runway between flights, but when you've got a plane landing or taking off every 40 seconds you'd need a fleet of Formula One snowploughs.... hang on, I'm off to apply to Dragons' Den.

[Eki]

We in the UK seem to have this view that we are unique in being affected by snow, when the rest of the world copes perfectly. That's clearly not true, but it doesn't stop people having a moan.

I think LHR's problem stems from running so close to maximum capacity at all times, thanks in no small part to successive governments' failure to invest in runways in the south-east for fear of upsetting anyone.

Less busy airports have the opportunity to clear the runway between flights, but when you've got a plane landing or taking off every 40 seconds you'd need a fleet of Formula One snowploughs.... hang on, I'm off to apply to Dragons' Den.

Well, they could cancel or redirect just some flights, not all of them. Except if the only thing they have is an old man with a shovel.

[Dave B]

Well, they could cancel or redirect just some flights, not all of them. Except if the only thing they have is an old man with a shovel.

Oh don't get me wrong, the whole thing could and should have been handled better, especially with regard to the dismal amount of information apparently given to pax.

But you have to remember that this weather is rare in the UK, especially in the south. What we had this week was a sudden and intense snowstorm which, although forecast, was almost unprecidented. It's simply unrealistic to expect airports to keep equipment on standby which might only be used for a few days every decade.

The big question is whether this type of winter will become more common, or whether it's a temporary blip. Should airports (and railways, and highways agencies etc) spend money now to help prevent a recurrence of this chaos, or do we risk having hundreds of ploughs and de-icing rigs sat idle for a decade because this was a freak occurrance?

[GridGirl]

Some planes arriving in the UK have been diverted to other airports. Correct me if I'm wrong but not all planes would be allowed to be redirected to other airports. That big Airbus plane probably can't land or take off from quite a few of the smaller airports in the UK.

[Dave B]

According to this there were only 17 airports in the world (as of August '10) which could handle the A380, Manchester being the only other one in the UK outside of the affected south.

I'm sure other runways such as Manston (Kent International) are long enough to allow emergency landings (and the subsequent take-off), but wouldn't have the ground facilities to safely service the plane.

[Edit: according to Wikipedia, the A380 can use any runway which can accomodate a 747, but the point about ground facilities stands]

[Rollo]

After WW2 Heathrow had six runways arranged in a giant star of David pattern. You can still sort of mak out where four of them went.


The additions of Terminals 1, 2, 3 then 4 and 5 and the proposed Terminal 6 has meant that all but two have been built over, simply to accomodate sheer number the aircraft that go to Heathrow.
Dave is quite right about the A380. Runway length isn't a problem, but the potential exists in the airframe to extend the capacity to more than 900 people. When Terminal 1 was built in 1968 (in order to accomodate the then future 747) the biggest passenger load was the 707-320 with only 179 passengers.

Poor old Heathrow reached "saturation" (ie one plane a minute) back in the 1970s. It's asking a bit much from an airport which essentially dates from 1947.

[wedge]

...have been forced to close their airports because of snow and now they wonder how the Helsinki-Vantaa Airport is able to remain open:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12042213

Ah, yes, Helsinki-Vantaa Airport, one of the busiest transport hubs in the world

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-12039443

In an airport like Heathrow - much busier than Stockholm-Arlanda - which can often be operating at 98% of capacity, small amounts of disruption can cause rafts of cancellations.

"Really busy airports operate pretty close to capacity - even going to a more widely spaced approaches might mean cancellations," says Learmount.

At smaller airports the effects of the weather on schedules may be much less noticeable.