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5th December 2010, 16:39 #1
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How do you define a factory team in Formula 1?
I find it strange when people refer to teams such as Red Bull as being a 'privateer' team. Normally, a privateer is someone who uses someone elses car without financial support from that company.
Red Bull design their own car, so surely they are a factory team?Whats a uni?
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5th December 2010, 17:42 #2
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this is an issue that really comes to down to opinion.
I say all teams a effectively factory teams, bar HRT in 2010 who got their car made by Dallara.
However, there are 'manufacturer' teams; Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault
I suppose the rest can be called 'independents', with some being larger than others; Mclaren, Red Bull being the 'independent giants' if you will, whereas Williams, Virgin, lotus etc are more 'independent minnows'
Yeah, even whilst writing that, I realise how fuzzy that all sounds.Congratulations Sebastian Vettel. Champion of the season of seasons.
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5th December 2010, 21:12 #3
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I think it's a holdover from when there were genuine privateer teams who would buy a chasis and go race it. That sort of evolved into teams who would design their own chassis and then buy an engine to go into the back.
The 'factory' teams were initially the ones who designed and built the whole car. When Ferrari became the only one of those left the term factory team sort of meant those teams that had their engines supplied to them, McLaren-Honda, Williams-Renault etc.
Today none of this really applies. Red Bull aren't a privateer and nor are they are works or factory team. Even though they may buy their engines, those engines are the same spec as those in the works Renaults so the old definitions don't really apply.
I think UltimtateDanGTR has it right. Teams are probably best described as manufacturer/non-manufacturer these days.Forza Ferrari!!
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5th December 2010, 23:40 #4
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the days of customer cars are long gone
McLaren-Mercedes
supercar
Ferrari
supercar & road cars
Mercedes GP
road cars & supercar
Renault
road cars
Virgin
now linked to supercars
Lotus (team Lotus)
Lotus has unveiled the ultimate track-day car – a Formula One-inspired racer called the Type 125.
Williams
Williams' KERS Featured on Porsche 911 GT3 R Hybrid
redbull
red bull to supply gearbox to lotus
Sauber & Force India & toro rosso would be the closest to a privateerVERSTAPPEN: ‘If I’d let Sainz past, dad would’ve kicked me in the nuts!’
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6th December 2010, 02:45 #5
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Like every thing else the word (world) has evolved.
Ferrari (the old man) called all the English teams 'Garagistas' (sp) in that they did not build the entire car but bought engines and gearboxes.
Many, many years ago I was in the March and Ensign F1 'factories.'
March was in several scuzzy industrial mall units. The F1 and F2 mechanics were fired at the end of the season and then hired back to build customer cars at even lower salaries.
The Ensign F1 team was in a converted WW2 Quonset shed and the full time team was Mo Nunn and two mechanics.
Chevron, although not a F1 team, was housed in an old Victorian mill.
Both March and Ensign ran what were considered 'factory teams' as did Chevron in F2, F5000 and Atlantic.
As an aside that was F1 before Bernie!!!!!!!!
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6th December 2010, 10:30 #6
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Originally Posted by Easy Drifter
(but I know what you mean )
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6th December 2010, 10:42 #7
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Originally Posted by thunderbolt
A manufacturer of cars that enters F1 for marketing purposes is a Factory team.
A company that exists solely for racing in F1 and is was not originally a vehicle manufacturer could be labelled a 'privateer'.
I see McLaren as once being a privateer, and Williams I would say still very much is.
Ferrari is the anomally - as Enzo originally sold cars to fund his racing. So really, on that basis you could say that, at one point, Ferrari WAS F1. Not so sure that still holds true though.......Opinions are like ar5eholes, everyone has one.
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6th December 2010, 14:32 #8
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Bernie never drove F1. I do not think he got beyond the 500cc F3 class and certainly not beyond F2. Mosely drove in F2 but with little success. Neither ere worth much as drivers.
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6th December 2010, 16:40 #9
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I have defined "factory team" as something that has a car manufacturer support/backing. From this point of view Williams has fluctuated quite a fair bit. In Honda, Renault and BMW days they were a "factory team" by this definition, but in 98-99 and since 06 a privateer.
However, while Ferrari is considered to be a "factory team" as such (although they get little support from Fiat nowadays), I'm starting to wonder, how to define McLaren. After losing the support of Mercedes they are now basically a private team, but then again they are trying to establish themselves as a car manufacturer. :
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6th December 2010, 16:48 #10Originally Posted by jens"Every generation's memory is exactly as long as its own experience." --John Kenneth Galbraith
If it's enough reduction to enable some extra Rally1 cars with WRC Promotor help it's only a good thing if only for the next 18 months. WRC Promoter’s Senior Director of Sport, Peter Thul added:...
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