Should Ireland be united?

[glauistean]

As I say it would be fool hardy, besides the fact I live here, I married an English woman, and we have two daughters... I take then to events like this Saturdays London Lord Mayors show... they know they have Irish roots and family still living there but they are English... and I am proud to make sure they know that.... with the best will in the world I will never return to Ireland now, even with a mega lottery win I would only buy a holiday home there.

I would have a problem in your household. Do you get to do the dishes and the vacuuming? Surrounded by women

[glauistean]

I used to remember the 'only three foreign players rule' in the mid 1990s when Manchester United and other British clubs were disadvantaged in the European Cup because Welsh players such as Ryan Giggs and Mark Hughes were classed as foriegn.

I must be incorrect on that regarding the Irish or it may have been before the period you are speaking about.

Hard to believe that Ryan Giggs is still going on strong. Paul Scholes too.

Did you see them play Wolves on Saturday? They were lucky to get that win.

Amazing squad though.

[yodasarmpit]

In response to the original question, let Ireland and Northern Ireland decide by means of a referendum.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I have to say Ireland should be one country. Let me state that my view on this isn't what my ancestors thought. My family on both sides is from Ulster. My father's family is from Donegal, my Mother's from Newtonards Penisula. My grandfather belonged to the Orange lodge here in Canada. My mother's family worked for land agents over here resettling Protestants and Catholics in the new country. So this conflict has always troubled me.

It is pretty simple though. The UK, through history treated Ireland horribly. Even when it seemed to try to do the right thing, it didn't happen. Being tough with the IRA didn't work, and the whole thing is one of those wrongs of history that the UK has to atone for I suppose on some level. That said, in today's world, it has. The Republic and the UK get along fine, and citizens of either don't have a problem with the other EXCEPT maybe when it comes to Northern Ireland. Even then, I think most in the UK are ready to say "enough already, get out".

Northern Ireland however has a large group of people who are not Ian Paisley and his thugs who are protestant who do wish to stay with the crown. If their rights are to be respected, then I suppose it wont change.

Other than fiscal stupidity which will likely be cured over time, Ireland has been a remarkable country in the last few years. If I lived in Ulster, I would want to just get on with it...just as long as the government in Dublin accepted a principle and revision to the constitution to respect secular rights and keep religion away from affairs of state. IF that is the case now, then I wouldn't have an issue, but alas, I am just not there.

IT is the nation though of my roots, and it always troubled me that things are that messy there. What really annoys me though is the Orangemen trying to hold the moral highground with some of the stunts they pull on the 12th. Greater Irony? The decendents of the two sides get along fine in Canada....When the main Catholic Church burned down in Mainly Protestant (and an Orangemen's hotbed if there was one in Ontario) in Midland Ontario; one of the first organizations who offered up space to help was the local Orange lodge. It seems if you take the Irish out of Ireland, they seem to get along!!

glauistean, I wont get into how I disagree with you on the Falklands....but on Ireland, One Ireland is a great thing...but it cant just be done overnight. I predict though in 50 to 100 years it will happen peacefully. Why? Ireland will be back as an economic work horse in the EC in time....and as things are better in the south, it will make clear the folly of being part of the UK which has really ignored both protestant and catholic....

[Rollo]

glauistean, I wont get into how I disagree with you on the Falklands....

I will... and I'll start a new thread on the subject...

Here 'tis:
http://www.motorsportforums.com/foru...d.php?p=860180

[janvanvurpa]

Gee there are two small French Islands off of the east coast of the U.S., now who owns those by your standard, Canada or the U.S., or France?
Canada probably as they are closer than either the U.S. or France; I guess they should invade.

Off the coast of the US,eh?
The nearest US territory, Maine, is about 500 miles/850km as the crow flies.
The Newfoundland coast is about 10miles/16km

There's a whole Canadian Province or 2 between Maine and St.Pierre et Miquelon.

Your analogy fails.

(Look on a map maybe)

[glauistean]

I have to say Ireland should be one country. Let me state that my view on this isn't what my ancestors thought. My family on both sides is from Ulster. My father's family is from Donegal, my Mother's from Newtonards Penisula. My grandfather belonged to the Orange lodge here in Canada. My mother's family worked for land agents over here resettling Protestants and Catholics in the new country. So this conflict has always troubled me.

It is pretty simple though. The UK, through history treated Ireland horribly. Even when it seemed to try to do the right thing, it didn't happen. Being tough with the IRA didn't work, and the whole thing is one of those wrongs of history that the UK has to atone for I suppose on some level. That said, in today's world, it has. The Republic and the UK get along fine, and citizens of either don't have a problem with the other EXCEPT maybe when it comes to Northern Ireland. Even then, I think most in the UK are ready to say "enough already, get out".

Northern Ireland however has a large group of people who are not Ian Paisley and his thugs who are protestant who do wish to stay with the crown. If their rights are to be respected, then I suppose it wont change.

Other than fiscal stupidity which will likely be cured over time, Ireland has been a remarkable country in the last few years. If I lived in Ulster, I would want to just get on with it...just as long as the government in Dublin accepted a principle and revision to the constitution to respect secular rights and keep religion away from affairs of state. IF that is the case now, then I wouldn't have an issue, but alas, I am just not there.

IT is the nation though of my roots, and it always troubled me that things are that messy there. What really annoys me though is the Orangemen trying to hold the moral highground with some of the stunts they pull on the 12th. Greater Irony? The decendents of the two sides get along fine in Canada....When the main Catholic Church burned down in Mainly Protestant (and an Orangemen's hotbed if there was one in Ontario) in Midland Ontario; one of the first organizations who offered up space to help was the local Orange lodge. It seems if you take the Irish out of Ireland, they seem to get along!!

glauistean, I wont get into how I disagree with you on the Falklands....but on Ireland, One Ireland is a great thing...but it cant just be done overnight. I predict though in 50 to 100 years it will happen peacefully. Why? Ireland will be back as an economic work horse in the EC in time....and as things are better in the south, it will make clear the folly of being part of the UK which has really ignored both protestant and catholic....

Mark, good post. Regarding your point about the two church's getting along when they are away from Ulster is very telling. The issue in NI or 6 counties of Ulster is one based on politics with religion being the common denominator between them. Presbyterians booted off their land in Scotland and planted in Ireland after the landlords were evicted. They of course happened to be Catholic.

Now move forward a couple of hundred years and after the rebellion of 1916 and a show of determination from DeValera and Michael Colins to have a United Ireland it was left to Collins to agree to 26 counties instead of 32.

They were of course the six counties of Ulster. Not all Ulster is in Northern Ireland. Donegal for example where your dad is from is in the Republic.So to o is Monaghan and Cavan. I may be misssing one.

I like you do not see unification coming soon either and I did not mean to infer that all Presbyterians were like Ian Paisley. Nor are all Catholics like Martin McGinnis.

My brother lives in Ireland and goes into the North quite a lot. He loves doing business there as he says that in the middle class area you will find both religions living together and having done that all through the Troubles.

[fandango]

History has become irrelevant. What's interesting about this question is that there isn't a clamouring throng of people in the Republic of Ireland (The Irish Free State, as it was known) who wish for their countrymen to be united with them.

When I was a teenager in the mid-eighties in Dublin I remember meeting some Germans and being surprised that unification was something they dreamed of, something that would subsequently happen within a few years.

In the Republic of Ireland people have been gradually educated not to bother with all that stuff. We're easily offended when the Brits get their facts wrong about Ireland, like when they talk about "here and the mainland", but that's because we don't want to recognise that they just don't consider Ireland to be that important, understandably, and then we (Republic of Ireland citizens) do exactly the same to Northern Ireland: Most people just don't really care what goes on there, unless it relates directly to them. So the question is not now about a "United Ireland", but rather "What will the Northern Irish people do with themselves, for good or bad?"

[Cooper_S]

History has become irrelevant. What's interesting about this question is that there isn't a clamouring throng of people in the Republic of Ireland (The Irish Free State, as it was known) who wish for their countrymen to be united with them.

When I was a teenager in the mid-eighties in Dublin I remember meeting some Germans and being surprised that unification was something they dreamed of, something that would subsequently happen within a few years.

In the Republic of Ireland people have been gradually educated not to bother with all that stuff. We're easily offended when the Brits get their facts wrong about Ireland, like when they talk about "here and the mainland", but that's because we don't want to recognise that they just don't consider Ireland to be that important, understandably, and then we (Republic of Ireland citizens) do exactly the same to Northern Ireland: Most people just don't really care what goes on there, unless it relates directly to them. So the question is not now about a "United Ireland", but rather "What will the Northern Irish people do with themselves, for good or bad?"

As you say, I also have never considered the possibility on seeing Ireland united, I was born and raised in the Republic and we were our own country and got on with that.

Someone posted earlier that this is a matter for the peoples of Ireland, but really it is mostly for the people of the six counties to decide, when they can decide they want it then the Republic will consider if they want it.

[ioan]

On the subject of the Falklands there has been a news story today that if the planned cuts in the UK carrier fleet and Harriers goes ahead then we wouldn't be in a position to respond to a new Argentinian invasion.

Don't worry, Argentina doesn't have more money available either!

Seriously do you believe that in today's world they would risk a UN embargo by starting an armed conflict?