NASCAR - The Modern Era 1975-2014 Rescored using F1 points

[slorydn1]

Just a personal observation: I find that other than for some personal gratification for reasons beyond my comprehension, as well as lots of time on one's hands, as to the point of doing something of this nature. However, this seems to be not uncommon among those following the various NASCAR series. Given that there is still much to be done regarding the history of both stock car racing and NASCAR, both being something of a disaster for the most part, any time spent delving into the past could probably be used to kick over some of the rocks that litter the landscape and see what is under them.

An example of a lot of trees that died in vain -- which is, alas, the fate of virtually every tree used in the production of a book on stock cars or NASCAR -- is the book by Richard Sowers, The Complete Statistical History of Stock-Car Racing (David Bull, 2000). The book could have been a very worthy addition to the extremely thin literature relating to the issues regarding the Grand National division. Instead, it is a book that allows the author to indulge in some statical fantasies that are of little to no use to the historian. That Sowers claims to have a "complete" set of the results of the Grand National division only increases one's frustrations with the book.

Of course, his take on the history, the early days of stock car racing, generally repeats the usual mythology and what has been shaped to be that past by NASCAR and others.

I can't disagree with your assessment on time nor with the Sowers book.

I started this project in the middle of last season after a particularly heated discussion about the inadaquacies of the Latford system, and how it exacerbates the the "gimmiky" nature of the Chase. Part of this argument was caused by the other little project that I had going on, scoring the top 3 National series using the new FIA points system during the 2010 season.

Actually, it was a lot of fun, at least for me.

The fact that the were only 2 different championship scenarios during the Chase era (which stayed the same even after 2010's great season) absolutely floored me, especialy when one considers fully half of the chase seasons would have turned out differently had the full season Latford points been used.

[beachgirl]

Having obviously missed something, this sort of thing does tend to pique one's curiosity....

My bet is on Matt Kenseth, with no personal feelings one way or the other regarding whether or not he deserved his championship.

[slorydn1]

My bet is on Matt Kenseth, with no personal feelings one way or the other regarding whether or not he deserved his championship.

Nope, your guess would be incorrect. Kenseth got it done over the entire season, one race win notwithstanding. He actually was pretty dominant that year, just couldn't seem to close the deal at the end of races for some reason. But he was able to avoid the finishes of p30 or worse, too.

[Chris R]

Pretty cool stuff - thanks for doing the work - while it is all academic - it does provide some interesting insight....

[Chris R]

My bet is on Kurt Busch being the "undeserving" one - how did he pull off that championship when Johnson's stats were so strong??

[slorydn1]

My bet is on Kurt Busch being the "undeserving" one - how did he pull off that championship when Johnson's stats were so strong??

Well, uhhhh, ummm I don't wanna ruin it yet. I may just save my self some time and just post the standings then go ahead and add the other statistical stuff in for each year at a later time. Everytime i get started posting a couple of threads something comes up that needs tending too. It takes about and hour to an hour and a half to post each opening with all the numbers, and only about 5 minutes to do the top 15...

[slorydn1]

All the standings are posted now,, as you can see. As time permits I will do follow on posts in each thread from 1990 to present to do the statistical analysis that I had done in previous years, but at least you can see who was where in the top 15 in each year. I do have every driver who scored points scored on a grid sheet, but I only "placed" the top 15 in a standings order to save myself some time. If you are wondering where how many points your driver scored in a given year and he isn't in the standings, feel free to ask, I do have the info. I may not beable to tell you for sure he was in p23, lets say, but I can tell you how many points he had.

[slorydn1]

Here is the champions list based on using the the FIA system from 1975 on. All champions prior to 1975 are listed using whatever system they were using in real life:

 
001 Richard Petty...............07 (1964,1967,1971,1972,1974,1975,1979)
t02 Dale Earnhardt..............05 (1986,1987,1990,1991,1994)
t02 Jeff Gordon.................05 (1995,1996,1997,1998,2001)
t02 Jimmie Johnson..............05 (2004,2006,2007,2009,2010)
005 Cale Yarborough.............04 (1976,1977,1978,1980)
t06 Lee Petty...................03 (1954,1958,1959)
t06 David Pearson...............03 (1966,1968,1969)
t06 Darrell Waltrip.............03 (1981,1982,1983)
t06 Rusty Wallace...............03 (1988,1989,1993)
t10 Buck Baker..................02 (1956,1957)
t10 Tim Flock...................02 (1952,1955)
t10 Ned Jarrett.................02 (1961,1965)
t10 Herb Thomas.................02 (1951,1959)
t10 Joe Weatherly...............02 (1962,1963)
t10 Bill Elliott................02 (1985,1992)
t10 Tony Stewart................02 (2002,2005)
t10 Carl Edwards................02 (2008,2011)
t17 Red Byron...................01 (1949)
t17 Bobby Isaac.................01 (1970)
t17 Benny Parsons...............01 (1973)
t17 Bill Rexford................01 (1950)
t17 Rex White...................01 (1960)
t17 Terry Labonte...............01 (1984)
t17 Dale Jarrett................01 (1999)
t17 Bobby Labonte...............01 (2000)
t17 Ryan Newman.................01 (2003)

As usual this is just for fun and kinda interesting. I do need to back track a little on a comment I made earlier. Yes Kurt Busch is the one who I called the "most undeserving Champion ever" but that's not entirely true. He deserves the championship he won because he won it in the system that was in place when he won it. So yes, he deserves it. But he is the one of only 3 from 1975 on that wouldn't have won it in any system that takes a full season into account (Jimmie Johnson in 2008 and Tony Stewart in 2011 being the others). Matt Kenseth fell further in FIA standings in 2003 (p5) versus Busch's p4 in 2004-but Kenseth won his deal over an entire season. Even Jimmie Johnson, who was dismantled by Harvick in 2010 in a full season of Latford points at least won the FIA deal.

[slorydn1]

I had forgotten about this as it had been done so long ago, but Jayski had done some hard work back when the Chase was first anounced extending the chase back to 1975 which just happens to coincide with my "FIA Cup" chart. His work can be found here:

Jayski's® NASCAR Silly Season Site - The Chase for the Sprint Cup 2010

What that had allowed me to do is go back and re-update my chart and I have been able to piece together some pretty interesting info.

Seasons with "Triple Crown Winners": 17 (1975-1979,1981,1982,1986,1987,1989,1990,1994,1998,2000, 2005,2006,2009)

Seasons where the Winston Cup and FIA Cup agree, but Sprint Cup different: 9 (1984,1991,1995,1997,1999,2001,2002,2008,2011)

Seasons where Winston Cup and Sprint Cup agree but FIA Cup different: 2 (1985,1988)

Seasons where Sprint Cup and FIA Cup Agree, but Winston Cup different: 6 (1980,1983,1993,1996,2007,2010)

Seasons with 3 different Champions: 3 (1992,2003,2004)

Triple Crown Winners:

 
001 Dale Earnhardt..........04 (1986,1987,1990,1994)
002 Cale Yarborough.........03 (1976-1978)
t03 Richard Petty...........02 (1975,1979)
t03 Darrell Waltrip.........02 (1981,1982)
t03 Jimmie Johnson..........02 (2006,2009)
t06 Rusty Wallace...........01 (1989)
t06 Jeff Gordon.............01 (1998)
t06 Bobby Labonte...........01 (2000)
t06 Tony Stewart............01 (2005)

[slorydn1]

Here is the champions list based on using the the FIA system from 1975 on. All champions prior to 1975 are listed using whatever system they were using in real life:

 
t01 Richard Petty...............07 (1964,1967,1971,1972,1974,1975,1979)
t01 Jimmie Johnson..............07 (2004,2006,2007,2009,2010,2012,2013)
t03 Dale Earnhardt..............05 (1986,1987,1990,1991,1994)
t03 Jeff Gordon.................05 (1995,1996,1997,1998,2001)
005 Cale Yarborough.............04 (1976,1977,1978,1980)
t06 Lee Petty...................03 (1954,1958,1959)
t06 David Pearson...............03 (1966,1968,1969)
t06 Darrell Waltrip.............03 (1981,1982,1983)
t06 Rusty Wallace...............03 (1988,1989,1993)
t10 Buck Baker..................02 (1956,1957)
t10 Tim Flock...................02 (1952,1955)
t10 Ned Jarrett.................02 (1961,1965)
t10 Herb Thomas.................02 (1951,1959)
t10 Joe Weatherly...............02 (1962,1963)
t10 Bill Elliott................02 (1985,1992)
t10 Tony Stewart................02 (2002,2005)
t10 Carl Edwards................02 (2008,2011)
t17 Red Byron...................01 (1949)
t17 Bobby Isaac.................01 (1970)
t17 Benny Parsons...............01 (1973)
t17 Bill Rexford................01 (1950)
t17 Rex White...................01 (1960)
t17 Terry Labonte...............01 (1984)
t17 Dale Jarrett................01 (1999)
t17 Bobby Labonte...............01 (2000)
t17 Ryan Newman.................01 (2003)

As usual this is just for fun and kinda interesting. I do need to back track a little on a comment I made earlier. Yes Kurt Busch is the one who I called the "most undeserving Champion ever" but that's not entirely true. He deserves the championship he won because he won it in the system that was in place when he won it. So yes, he deserves it. But he is the one of only 3 from 1975 on that wouldn't have won it in any system that takes a full season into account (Jimmie Johnson in 2008 and Tony Stewart in 2011 being the others). Matt Kenseth fell further in FIA standings in 2003 (p5) versus Busch's p4 in 2004-but Kenseth won his deal over an entire season. Even Jimmie Johnson, who was dismantled by Harvick in 2010 in a full season of Latford points at least won the FIA deal.

Just a note: I edited the chart above to add in the 2011 season results, as well as the paragraph below it (edits highlighted in bold text). Tony Stewart now adds his name to the list of Chumpions-the list of drivers gifted a championship by the chase that they would have had not even the remotest chance of winning in any full season points system.

I also edited the following post about the triple crown winners, again with bold type.