It's official! There is no God.

[Rollo]

IMO religion breeds intolerance and ignorance, you don't need religion in your life to treat people correctly and to be happy. There are more than enough examples of mistreatment and unhappiness caused by religions that prove beyond any doubt i may have there is no god, and the sooner the worlds wakes up to that fact and stops using it as an excuse the better we'll all be.

Religion according to the OED is
2. "a particular system of faith and/or worship",
3. "a controlling influence on a person's life"

My great conjecture is that in broad terms, faith is what a person believes or trusts in, and that religion is a set of practices which stem from this.

Everybody believes something (you yourself state that you believe there is no god, which is still belief of something), ergo everybody has their own unique religion of sorts. Whether or not it is codified is entirely another matter, but since religion is a set of practices, and everybody acts (I can't think of the most general verb, but no-one is totally inanimate), then it is not a logical leap to suggest that everyone has a religion.

Therefore I agree that religion breeds intolerance and ignorance, because: "everyone from the lowliest peasant, to kings and princes are motivated by self-interest"
- Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations, Book 1.

The thug who robs a 7-Eleven, a lazy plumber who takes too long to do a job, the bankers on Wall St, even the priesthood who do "naughty things", are all "motivated by self-interest"; because of this, the religion that has caused more "mistreatment and unhappiness" than any other is surely the religion of self-interest? I'd say that it's caused both far more bad and good than any organised church, or codified religion ever has.

Bob's comment here as far as I can tell, based on logical argument, is utterly perfect:

As you see fit-the right way-- hmmm, the right way by whose standards?

It would seem only by yours; therefore if another lives ones life "the right way" but by standards that differ from yours, the one has every right, and is correct to do as the one believes proper, with no other rules, or guiding standards than the ones.

That makes life better than those supposedly trying to obey God, in what manner?

Taken to it's most extreme Mr Robinho (and indeed everyone reading this, because everyone is motivated by self-interest), just which religion breeds the most intolerance and ignorance?
YOURS.

[race aficionado]

A thread like this can end up going to hell, pun intended.

As human beings, which we all are, we have to recognize that one of our traits is to have opinions and beliefs.

This is not to be confused with the acceptance of certain facts: like scientific or mathematical ones that have been proven as such.

In terms of beliefs and opinions, they are just that and as such they should be respected as long as they don't infringe in our free will and personal space and physical safety.

Please let's stop trying to convince the other that his beliefs and opinions are wrong - they just happen to be different than yours and so be it.

And as for me, I will go with the Donk's God, so sue me! :

peace and freedom of THOUGHT damit!
mokin:

[Bob Riebe]

I was brought up in what can only be described as a Christian fundamentalist sect, the Exclusive Brethren, where the stories in the bible were taken largely as literal fact------
and/or interpretations to suit whatever suited them at the time or for whatever incident.

The two are mutually exclusive, they either did it one way or the other.

That said-- I have dealt with enough "christians" whose dogma is based on the second part of your statement to know that, maybe, more dogmas run by that style than the former.

"Christian" whose exclude science from God's miracles are either ignorant or simply obtusely stubborn; after all God wrote the Science, Biology, Chemistry, Physics rules before man existed.
Sadly on the other side, too many men who whose knowledge of the above sciences is less than God's what to tell God how he did it, or at least make men believe they are that smart.

[Robinho]

As you see fit-the right way-- hmmm, the right way by whose standards?

It would seem only by yours; therefore if aother lives ones life "the right way" but by standards that differ from yours, the one has every right, and is correct to do as the one believes proper, with no other rules, or guiding standards than the ones.

That makes life better than those supposedly trying to obey God, in what manner?

not only by mine, by any means, mostly by society's, which i admit have many of their rules and laws based on religon. But i say they don't need to be religous to make sense, and they are actualy conceived by Humans anyway.

but i will make my own choices, not guided by something i can neither see, hear, feel or find any reason for other than Man's fear of the unknown, predominantly death. I will be accountable for my own actions, not hide behind rules or teachings I do not feel are anything more than fiction.

People are free to make their own choices, but generally have to accept the law of the land. I have conceded this is often based in some part on religous doctrine, but i also contend that without that we would still have the same rules of what is and isn't acceptable.

I'll obey laws, i'll obey rules and contracts that affect me. I'll obey those who i respect, i cannot obey something that i feel does not exist and that doesn't actually ask me to do anything. We have a powerful and complex brain and are surrounded by amazing things, many of which i cannot begin to explain or understand, but i don't see any reason to blindly accept that this means there must be a higher power at work who therefore i must be in awe of, afraid of, and obey.

Like i said, if i am wrong then its my souol, but i'm not prepared to waste what seems to me like one opportunity to exist on this planet in following some heavily doctored rules supposedly handed down a few thousand years ago when apparently people actually could interact with a god, or were naiive enough to believe those who claimed they could.

ignorance may indeed be bliss, but not for me

[Robinho]

Religion according to the OED is
2. "a particular system of faith and/or worship",
3. "a controlling influence on a person's life"

My great conjecture is that in broad terms, faith is what a person believes or trusts in, and that religion is a set of practices which stem from this.

Everybody believes something (you yourself state that you believe there is no god, which is still belief of something), ergo everybody has their own unique religion of sorts. Whether or not it is codified is entirely another matter, but since religion is a set of practices, and everybody acts (I can't think of the most general verb, but no-one is totally inanimate), then it is not a logical leap to suggest that everyone has a religion.

Therefore I agree that religion breeds intolerance and ignorance, because: "everyone from the lowliest peasant, to kings and princes are motivated by self-interest"
- Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations, Book 1.

The thug who robs a 7-Eleven, a lazy plumber who takes too long to do a job, the bankers on Wall St, even the priesthood who do "naughty things", are all "motivated by self-interest"; because of this, the religion that has caused more "mistreatment and unhappiness" than any other is surely the religion of self-interest? I'd say that it's caused both far more bad and good than any organised church, or codified religion ever has.

Bob's comment here as far as I can tell, based on logical argument, is utterly perfect:


Taken to it's most extreme Mr Robinho (and indeed everyone reading this, because everyone is motivated by self-interest), just which religion breeds the most intolerance and ignorance?
YOURS.

i can't argue with some of your post, especially belief systems, everyone believes in something, even if it is nothing, i guess.

we are motivtaed by self interest, amongst other natural animal instincts, such as the need to further the species, to be warm and fed, although the human instinct has evolved to pursue pleasure and peole will pursue different pleasures to varying degrees.

i don't agree that my disbelief in any god is a religon, i am not part of an organisation trying to spread my opinions (other than maybe the forum, in which case this is a religone and unfortunately for him, Mark is my god!)

i also strongly disagree with the ignorance part. I was brought up in a Christian home but had far too many questions that i felt could not be adequately answered by "faith" or "gods will". I am well educated in the Christian faith and have a decent understanding of many others. I know many people of various faiths who i am happy to debate with openly, and i often feel that many peoples attachment to a faith is more borne from a need to be part of an organisation and also to try and spread the very sensible and reasonable message of how is best to treat your fellow man and that the stories they base them on are jyst that, stories. if you really pressed them on whether they actually believed in their god their is a good deal of doubt, maybe they are just lacking faith. i contend you don't need to be part of the organised control system of whichever faith you pick to keep those morals and sensibilities, its just that people take some confort in the sharing.

i will agree that i am somewhat intolerant though, not to the people who choose to belive, that is their choice, and for the most part it wil lead them to living a heathly and happy life, but I am intolerant of those who seek to control people by way of religion, those activists and radicals who lobby against other groups because something goes against "gods will". Those who will use their god as an excuse to kill and maim because their god tells them to, or to spread their version of peace, that can only exist if their faith is the only one.

As long as religous people feel their beliefs are incompatible with both other religions as well as those without one then we are in trouble. in this respect the growing conservative politcal and religous movement scares me, as much as the Taliban or Al Queda. Anti-Gay, Anti-Abortion, climate change denying, anti other faiths. I cannot get on board with this.

All loving all peaceful gods are great, but we seem to be wearing thin on the ground for these at the moment.

i understand that people are scared of the unknown, they are scared of death and what may or may not follow, but its just people. we are it, i don't think there is anything else, so make the best of what we've got now, rather than trying to please something else in the hope of something eternal. That is the biggest and vainest pursuit of self interest out there

[F1boat]

i will agree that i am somewhat intolerant though, not to the people who choose to belive, that is their choice, and for the most part it wil lead them to living a heathly and happy life, but I am intolerant of those who seek to control people by way of religion, those activists and radicals who lobby against other groups because something goes against "gods will". Those who will use their god as an excuse to kill and maim because their god tells them to, or to spread their version of peace, that can only exist if their faith is the only one.

As long as religous people feel their beliefs are incompatible with both other religions as well as those without one then we are in trouble. in this respect the growing conservative politcal and religous movement scares me, as much as the Taliban or Al Queda. Anti-Gay, Anti-Abortion, climate change denying, anti other faiths. I cannot get on board with this.

All loving all peaceful gods are great, but we seem to be wearing thin on the ground for these at the moment.

i understand that people are scared of the unknown, they are scared of death and what may or may not follow, but its just people. we are it, i don't think there is anything else, so make the best of what we've got now, rather than trying to please something else in the hope of something eternal. That is the biggest and vainest pursuit of self interest out there

That's exactly the way I think... kudos for the great post.

[It's JM]

Show me where those heaven and hell exist, show me proof that god exists you godlover.

Let me correct your ignorance, I never said I was a god lover. A god lover lives by the word of god for their entire life, I hardly do that. And if your skills of comprehension were working, I specifically said "You only know whether or not there really is a God or Devil until the day you die and go to Heaven or Hell."

[markabilly]

Let me correct your ignorance, I never said I was a god lover. A god lover lives by the word of god for their entire life, I hardly do that. And if your skills of comprehension were working, I specifically said "You only know whether or not there really is a God or Devil until the day you die and go to Heaven or Hell."

as I said before, you may know there is no heaven, but brother, you better pray, there ain't no hell.....