Toyota announces WRC plans

[raybak]

Another name associated with Toyota, Harry Bates, son of 4 times Australian Champion Neal Bates.

[MikeD]

I have, and still are, very critical about the way japanese companies operate (not only in motorsport). And as I have written before I think the Toyota WRC project will be a massive failure (not because of Mäkkinen) because they will do the same stupid decisions like Honda in F1 has annouced.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120287

If anybody was ever in doubt on why Japan is a shadow of its former glory, it's because of their pathetic nationalist way of doing things. They refuse to take input from something non-japanese. I doubt even Mäkkinen can change that...

[skarderud]

I remember subaru 04-06 was totally f***ed up because of some F1 engineers and a blind thrust on computers. They didn't listen to the drivers at all, maybe something similiar is the fear in any japanese-involved project?

[Lundefaret]

I remember subaru 04-06 was totally f***ed up because of some F1 engineers and a blind thrust on computers. They didn't listen to the drivers at all, maybe something similiar is the fear in any japanese-involved project?

There were a lot of reasons why Subaru struggled in WRC post 2003, but it was Prodrives making, not Japanese ways of working. The only Japanese influences on the poor results stem from small budgets (comparable to that of Citroën), and a boxer engine mounted way forward.

Prodrive has always been a great engineering company, and they punched way above their weight with all of their Subarus all the way to mid 2004. This with a car with a not perfect layout, and not the biggest budgets.
But new regulations limited Prodrives creativity when it came to battling the effects of Subarus quirky engine layout. That combined with a company with then big F1 ambitions, led to a lot of strange decisions.

With little rally experience the new engineers made cars that could not cross water streams like in Argentina, that lost their rear wing, and had very strange handling. The worst came last, and something wrong in the front geometry (to much anti dive?) made the Subaru S14 very difficult to handle on the limit, because it gave the driver almost no feedback.
I remember Petter being hugely frustrated by this.
But it was Prodrive, not the Japanese.

But Toyota has used a huge amount of money in both their first serious LeMans attack (with TTE) and the following F1-campaign, and have come up with measly results in comparison with the money spent. I think this is why TMG is left "out in the cold", and that they select hiring "outside" forces to run their rally campaign.

Tommi Mäkkinen off course has a big challenge ahead, but he has some incredible qualities that could be just what is needed to pip VW from the throne.

Regarding the car I am 100% confident that they will come up with a winner. Regarding the driver(s), well... Much more difficult. There is only one Ogier on the market, and he has married German.

Mäkkinen him self is a very good rally driver developer, but he needs the right subject with the right frame of mind. Lappi could be a guess, he seems to have the frame of mind, and he should be able to humble down in front of a four time world champion. Mäkkinen could also be the guy to bring back the mojo of Neuville (but if he is ready to take driving lessons, I am not so sure.)

Either way Toyotas comeback will bring excitement in to the sport, I only hope Citroën (DS) decides to stay, and drop the lame WTCC-racing with neither attracts PR or excitement.

[AL14]

Tommi Mäkkinen off course has a big challenge ahead, but he has some incredible qualities that could be just what is needed to pip VW from the throne.

Regarding the car I am 100% confident that they will come up with a winner. Regarding the driver(s), well... Much more difficult. There is only one Ogier on the market, and he has married German.

I wouldn't be that confident. They have 18 months and VW is beginning testing the car soon. They had the advantage to focus fully on testing new cars and due to plan changes in the middle of the project they are already behind.
We should have read articles like "Toyota is testing new 2017 car" before VW and other manufacturers but now what we are reading is that Makkinen is desperately building a team and still don't know where all the work will be done and so on.
Not a good start for a team that want to beat the best car with the best driver.
BTW, I still hope they will bring excitement as you say, they can make a miracle in these 18 months and we all need it.

Regarding Citroen. I hope they will go away and Abu Dhabi goes back to M-Sport. It's better to have 4 strong manufacturers than 5 if some of them are always trying to spend less money every year.

[Ounin]

I wouldn't be that confident. They have 18 months and VW is beginning testing the car soon. They had the advantage to focus fully on testing new cars and due to plan changes in the middle of the project they are already behind.
We should have read articles like "Toyota is testing new 2017 car" before VW and other manufacturers but now what we are reading is that Makkinen is desperately building a team and still don't know where all the work will be done and so on.
Not a good start for a team that want to beat the best car with the best driver.
BTW, I still hope they will bring excitement as you say, they can make a miracle in these 18 months and we all need it.

Regarding Citroen. I hope they will go away and Abu Dhabi goes back to M-Sport. It's better to have 4 strong manufacturers than 5 if some of them are always trying to spend less money every year.

I do agree but not with the Citroen part... Every WRC team that leaves is a waste of mileage opportunies for young talent, there has to be a stepping stone, better from poor WRC team to top class WRC team than from WRC2, you need to adapt driving style and pace notes to high WRC level. In that given situation a young driver can be rated by the big teams to be interesting or a failure/don't bother.

[Simmi]

I wouldn't be that confident. They have 18 months and VW is beginning testing the car soon. They had the advantage to focus fully on testing new cars and due to plan changes in the middle of the project they are already behind.
We should have read articles like "Toyota is testing new 2017 car" before VW and other manufacturers but now what we are reading is that Makkinen is desperately building a team and still don't know where all the work will be done and so on.
Not a good start for a team that want to beat the best car with the best driver.
BTW, I still hope they will bring excitement as you say, they can make a miracle in these 18 months and we all need it.

I think this is the big issue. Regardless of who actually runs the team and builds the cars, when you know in advance that you are entering the championship then it gives you at least an opportunity to try to steal an advantage on your rivals. Okay they didn't know the exact regulations but ideally everything would have been in place at this point - not a rushed project.

VW basically set the standard for how to enter the championship if you want to be successful. It looked like Toyota was following that trajectory until they decided to change direction. Okay if taking a step back allows them to go further in the future then I support it. I just hope they don't have to effectively take a year of development in 2017 when they are supposed to be competing.

[Mariusz]

I wouldn't be that confident. They have 18 months and VW is beginning testing the car soon. They had the advantage to focus fully on testing new cars and due to plan changes in the middle of the project they are already behind.
We should have read articles like "Toyota is testing new 2017 car" before VW and other manufacturers but now what we are reading is that Makkinen is desperately building a team and still don't know where all the work will be done and so on.
Not a good start for a team that want to beat the best car with the best driver.
BTW, I still hope they will bring excitement as you say, they can make a miracle in these 18 months and we all need it.

What do you want them to be testing now? TMG has been testing the 2015 spec this year, but the 2017 regulations are not final yet and we got to know the draft of them just a few weeks ago. VW won't be ready till second quarter of 2016 with the 2017 spec car and TMR wants to finalize the 2017 spec Yaris by October with testing starting in March and it's not like they are starting from scratch.

[AL14]

What do you want them to be testing now? TMG has been testing the 2015 spec this year, but the 2017 regulations are not final yet and we got to know the draft of them just a few weeks ago. VW won't be ready till second quarter of 2016 with the 2017 spec car and TMR wants to finalize the 2017 spec Yaris by October with testing starting in March and it's not like they are starting from scratch.

I want them to be ahead on timetables compared to other manufacturers considering they're working without having to think to championship. VW is going to test while Toyota has not a team yet. It's a fact. Remember that Toyota is not entering the sport like Hyundai, they're working on it for years.

I do agree but not with the Citroen part... Every WRC team that leaves is a waste of mileage opportunies for young talent, there has to be a stepping stone, better from poor WRC team to top class WRC team than from WRC2, you need to adapt driving style and pace notes to high WRC level. In that given situation a young driver can be rated by the big teams to be interesting or a failure/don't bother.

You have a point but still, 4 strong manufacturers with 3-4 cars each are a good number that leave space for talents to have opportunities. If they have to debut with a team where the only goal is survive year after year, trying to invest less money possible (and that means they will not invest money on talent as well!), I don't think it's a good start for their careers.

[dimviii]

Camilli
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhjwcnyUlp8