Should life in prison really mean life in prison?

[Eki]

On Tuesday, a 41-year old man shot three people at a drive-in McDonalds in Finland:

http://yle.fi/uutiset/news/2010/07/r...g_1815954.html

In 1997, he had been sentenced for life in prison for a murder and two attempted homicides. He was released in December 2009 after 12 years in prison:

The main suspect, a Porvoo resident with a record of violent crime, has said during interrogation, that he remembers almost nothing of the events. He was paroled just over six months ago after serving 12 years of a life sentence for homicide, and police say that he had apparently been drinking.

In Finland, those sentenced for life are in average pardoned after 13 years:

http://yle.fi/uutiset/news/2010/07/p...s_1813792.html

Should a life sentence really mean a life sentence? I'm not sure for first time offenders, but I think at least the second time it should. If they'll release this man again after another 13 years, he'll be about 54 and still a danger to the society, because it seems he doesn't learn.

[Daniel]

Where the person is always going to be a danger then yes, they should be put away till such an age where they are no longer a threat.

Whoever pardoned this guy should be ashamed.

[Rudy Tamasz]

Convicts must only be granted parole for a reason, if they really represent no danger to society and show genuine remorse. Otherwise they must be doing their time till they die.

This was a major screw up on part of whoever paroled him.

[Tazio]

I'm not sure;
I tend to agree with Daniel

We had our own "McDonalds massacre" here in S.D. I recall it quite well.
The establishment was so bullet riddled that they had to demolish the building. (which may have had more to do with Mickey D’s brass, and the general public concern of what that particular establishment would be associated with)

There are still many souvenirs of the building that are collected by human suffering enthusiasts.

The San Ysidro McDonald's massacre was a killing spree that occurred on July 18, 1984, in a McDonald's restaurant in the San Ysidro section of San Diego, California. The shootings resulted in 22 deaths (including the perpetrator James Oliver Huberty) and the injuries of 19 others.

On the day before the massacre, Huberty had called a mental health center. The receptionist misspelled his name on intake as "Shouberty". Since he had not claimed there was an immediate emergency, his call was not returned. Huberty and his family went to the San Diego Zoo on the morning of July 18, and had eaten at a McDonald's in the Clairemont neighborhood in northern San Diego a few hours prior to the massacre

I find it more than a little ironic that the most atrocious act of violence near our International Port of Entry was by a Midwesterner against largely Mexican/Americans and Mexicans legally visiting our city.

Huberty responded that he was "hunting humans".

Huberty used a 9 mm Uzi semi-automatic (the primary weapon fired in the massacre), a Winchester pump-action 12-gauge shotgun, and a 9 mm Browning HP in the restaurant, killing 21 people and wounding 19 others. Huberty's victims were predominantly Mexican and Mexican-American and ranged in age from 8 months to 74 years. The massacre began at 3:40 p.m. and lasted for 77 minutes. Huberty had spent 257 rounds of ammunition before he was fatally shot by a SWAT team sniper

[Easy Drifter]

In Canada a 1st degree murder conviction sentence is life with a parole application period specified. The toughest is life with no parole for 25 years and basically that means parole after 25 years. Shorter periods can be included in the sentence by the judge.
Most 2nd degree convictions usually end up with parole after about 10.
Most other crimes have a mandatory release after 2/3rds of the sentence which means, as an example, 6 years really is 4. Add in day passes, halfway houses and other 'programs' a 6 year sentence might end up being about 3 months.
Until the federal Govt. put a stop to it, recently, pre trial custody often meant 2 for 1 or even 3 for 1 credit in sentencing.
This could result in a person who had not been granted bail and was in jail for a year prior to conviction walking out of court a free person if sentenced to 3 years!
How ever we do have a provision that someone who is considered a dangerous offender stays in jail period. It is a rare occurence and most applications by the Crown for such designation fail.
Canada does not have the death penalty.

[markabilly]

Most intelligent comment I have heard about the deterrence effect came from a little old Hispanic lady, who was asked (while the jury deliberated the death penalty for someone for killing her daughter, one of a number of his victims) if giving him the death penalty would deter others from the same crime, and in broken English she said, no...

Of course all the reporters jumped in her face, and said so you don't favor death peanlty, ant him to live...yaydada, and when permitted to speak again, she said, " no, i don't think so, it will not deter others, but it will deter him mucho...."

And I think the same about the life sentence, put them away for good, if one has not the guts to permanently "deter" them....

About 20 years ago, I had a friend who was a police officer who was killed in the line of duty

The person who killed him was from Minn. where he had murdered both his parents. Indeed, his mother had called the police about a month before, when he got in trouble and they nearly shot him dead, but did not, and she told them that next time, well she would understand if they did....

Anyway, he killed them and they gave him a whole life sentence but served less than 10 years, out on parole, goes to a party, gets mad, goes home gets 12 guage with slugs and goes back and kills 4 people, and wounds a ten old girl......he is going home, and runs a stop sign in a nice neightborhood, and gets stopped,

They had just put computers in the cars, so he enters the plate number and gets out of the car. He is shot as he gets out with the slug hitting him in the throat right above the bullet proof vest and kills him instantly....

At the time, the only way to get the death penalty was to kill a fireman or a cop........at the funeral wake, I made several officers very mad when I said why give the guy the death penalty???

After all, the ONLY PERSON who this guy killed and for which he would get the needle and be executed, was the only person who had a chance at surviving a confrontation with him----he had a gun, a bullet proof vest, radio for immediate back up and all this training, that none of the other victims had

Anyway, the officer had a massive funeral, probably over a thousand or more were there


The little girl had been shot in the side of the face, and it took her whole jaw off, along with her nose, and would eventually die several weeks later. Very few people showed up for her funeral

So if one is convicted and given life, one needs not to ever be back on the streets again, ......ever....

[airshifter]

This is one of the basic flaws of a society that is too "civilised". Though it might make some people feel better when they give someone another chance, I'd like to know how those people feel right now.

And I'd really like to know what the family of the person murdered feels about it.


People may think it is primitive to execute someone, but in reality life in prison (if it in fact actually means life) is probably just as bad if not worse on a persons mind. And regardless of what anyone thinks, a dead man does not rape, murder, or torture another human ever again.

[BDunnell]

The answer is 'no', but the term 'life' is clearly ridiculous. Why is it used? If it wasn't employed in this context, I genuinely think there would be a lot less dissatisfaction with sentencing, because there would be no need for these 'should life mean life?' discussions.

[F1boat]

On Tuesday, a 41-year old man shot three people at a drive-in McDonalds in Finland:

http://yle.fi/uutiset/news/2010/07/r...g_1815954.html

In 1997, he had been sentenced for life in prison for a murder and two attempted homicides. He was released in December 2009 after 12 years in prison:



In Finland, those sentenced for life are in average pardoned after 13 years:

http://yle.fi/uutiset/news/2010/07/p...s_1813792.html

Should a life sentence really mean a life sentence? I'm not sure for first time offenders, but I think at least the second time it should. If they'll release this man again after another 13 years, he'll be about 54 and still a danger to the society, because it seems he doesn't learn.

From the description it seems that the man was probably insane, killing people and not remembering it is an awful sign. Terrible mistake for the people who let him free.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Where the person is always going to be a danger then yes, they should be put away till such an age where they are no longer a threat.

Whoever pardoned this guy should be ashamed.

We see the same stories in our press almost every week. The current Conservative government is trying to change the rules and lengthen sentences and the opposition gives up only when they realize they are against the public on this.

This catch and release justice system is an idea that the Scandinavian nations have practiced for some time, and it was our Libreal gov't in the 70's that sent Corrections officials over to Sweden and Finland to import it back here.

So to read Eki wanting to keep a guy locked up is rather ironic. I was almost expecting him to defend the right of the state to release this cretin....

BTW....how did he get a gun so fast to do the deed Eki? I thought you Finn's outlawed that sort of thing???