IRL Safety Team = Epic Fail

[downtowndeco]

I'm laughing when I read some of these posts, not stressed. Everyone of these keyboard jockey part time volunteer course workers have all of the answers but have none of the actual responsibilty if something where to go wrong. It's so easy to sit at home and nit pick and second guess every decision made. It's not so easy to step up to the plate and accept full responsibility for everything that goes down at the race track.

Let me ask you. What has been the IRL's record as far as responses to crashes on the track over the last 14+ years? How many drivers have been killed or seriously injured because the safety crew got there in 58 seconds vs 13 seconds (or whatever)? Other than the recent incident w/Simone where the driver got some minor burns I can't think of any. And that incident has been addressed and shoul not happen again.

My point is it's easy to sit at home and complain. It's a whole different ball game when you have to actually do something and then personally take reponsibilty for what happens because of it.

Why is it everytime you post I'm reminded of Kevin Bacon in Animal House?

[Mark in Oshawa]

I'm laughing when I read some of these posts, not stressed. Everyone of these keyboard jockey part time volunteer course workers have all of the answers but have none of the actual responsibilty if something where to go wrong. It's so easy to sit at home and nit pick and second guess every decision made. It's not so easy to step up to the plate and accept full responsibility for everything that goes down at the race track.

Let me ask you. What has been the IRL's record as far as responses to crashes on the track over the last 14+ years? How many drivers have been killed or seriously injured because the safety crew got there in 58 seconds vs 13 seconds (or whatever)? Other than the recent incident w/Simone where the driver got some minor burns I can't think of any. And that incident has been addressed and shoul not happen again.

My point is it's easy to sit at home and complain. It's a whole different ball game when you have to actually do something and then personally take reponsibilty for what happens because of it.

I guess someone like Drifter who actually has done marshalling and race rescue then has no idea? C'mon, you really are dense.

You don't get it do you? IT doesn't matter that no one has died. Hell, up to this spring, BP never had an oil well leak in the Gulf of Mexico either but we see the mess they have now. Never say never in safety, and your statement is epic proof to your naivety.

The day the IRL fails to have their safety guys on scene in time to make a difference will be the end of the IRL. You are obviously happy with the Keystone Cops approach to race safety....

[DBell]

Let me ask you. What has been the IRL's record as far as responses to crashes on the track over the last 14+ years? How many drivers have been killed or seriously injured because the safety crew got there in 58 seconds vs 13 seconds (or whatever)? Other than the recent incident w/Simone where the driver got some minor burns I can't think of any. And that incident has been addressed and shoul not happen again.

In many situations, a few seconds isn't a big deal because of the safety level of modern racing. But there will always be some where reaction time is critical. How many seconds were we from having Simone in a hospital undergoing skin grafts? A few seconds was the difference between Zanardi living and dying. To me, that was the gold standard of safety team work on any level of motor sports. From what I've seen this year, Zanardi would've been a goner if his crash happened this year.

[downtowndeco]

Marshalling and having to write the check and take full reponsibility if something goes wrong is an entirely different matter.

You want to talk about what would put an end to a series? How about having an Indycar rear end a safety truck full of rescuers at 175 mph because they just couldn't wait an extra 30 seconds to get to a crash scene?

I guess someone like Drifter who actually has done marshalling and race rescue then has no idea? C'mon, you really are dense.

You don't get it do you? IT doesn't matter that no one has died. Hell, up to this spring, BP never had an oil well leak in the Gulf of Mexico either but we see the mess they have now. Never say never in safety, and your statement is epic proof to your naivety.

The day the IRL fails to have their safety guys on scene in time to make a difference will be the end of the IRL. You are obviously happy with the Keystone Cops approach to race safety....

[downtowndeco]

So your solution is to fling a rescue truck out onto the track immediately, regardless of whether race traffic is under control or not? THAT is a huge incident just waiting to happen.

It's an imperfect world. Racing is dangerous. While things can always be improved (safer barrier, pit lane speed limits etc) other things are more more complicated and problematic in a real world situation. IMO this is one of them.

In many situations, a few seconds isn't a big deal because of the safety level of modern racing. But there will always be some where reaction time is critical. How many seconds were we from having Simone in a hospital undergoing skin grafts? A few seconds was the difference between Zanardi living and dying. To me, that was the gold standard of safety team work on any level of motor sports. From what I've seen this year, Zanardi would've been a goner if his crash happened this year.

[downtowndeco]

And yes, the CART safety team did a great job, no doubt. But take that exact same incident in F1, NASCAR, NHRA, any of the stick and ball sports and 9 times out of 10 you would probably have a fatality. While the CART team did a tremendous job and should be praised I bet they would be the first to admit they were damn lucky to have it turn out as well as it did.

In many situations, a few seconds isn't a big deal because of the safety level of modern racing. But there will always be some where reaction time is critical. How many seconds were we from having Simone in a hospital undergoing skin grafts? A few seconds was the difference between Zanardi living and dying. To me, that was the gold standard of safety team work on any level of motor sports. From what I've seen this year, Zanardi would've been a goner if his crash happened this year.

[Easy Drifter]

I have been to approximately 70 tracks world wide. I have seen safety crews from excellent to basically clueless. I have marshaled, raced, wrenched, worked race control, been a steward, spectator, tech inspector and had training on fire fighting from Cdn Air Force. I am now in the media.
As I pointed out there is currently the technology to advise the drivers instantly. F1 uses it. There is also the technology for race control to limit the speed of the cars. No one uses it yet. I can see it coming in F1 very shortly.
At Valencia 9, yes 9, drivers received penalties because they did not slow sufficiently or quickly enough under the Safety car.
Just because it has not happened does not mean it won't. Not every circumstance can be controlled but IC, and some other sanctioning groups had better seriously review their procedures.
Because of the basic track design ovals are far easier for safety equipment to get to an incident. Mostly they are also shorter. The Glen is 3.4 miles.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Marshalling and having to write the check and take full reponsibility if something goes wrong is an entirely different matter.

You want to talk about what would put an end to a series? How about having an Indycar rear end a safety truck full of rescuers at 175 mph because they just couldn't wait an extra 30 seconds to get to a crash scene?

I don't have to write the check. CART did, even when they were broke. They never cut back on safety. NEVER. What the IRL is doing is just silly when they bought up the assets of the CCWS/CART mess and the only thing they really didn't keep WAS the safety teams.

The difference in costs between what they were in CART/CCWS and what is happening now likely isn't that great.

AS for the assertion of drivers hitting the safety vehicles, puleeze. That chesnut is a joke. The reality is, safety trucks with full strobes would be scrambled the second the field had stopped racing, and that is maybe 10 seconds after the yellow lights/flags come out. Once the track is yellow, any driver hitting a safety vehicle is too dumb to race IMO.

The Zanardi incident was a perfect example of where the CART teams proved their worth. The would scramble before the pace car even picked up the leader...and the ONLY time a racer hit one of them was in Detroit by Mike Andretti and that was on the THIRD lap the truck was out there.... proving that race drivers can be brain dead 2 or 3 laps into a yellow...

[Mark in Oshawa]

And yes, the CART safety team did a great job, no doubt. But take that exact same incident in F1, NASCAR, NHRA, any of the stick and ball sports and 9 times out of 10 you would probably have a fatality. While the CART team did a tremendous job and should be praised I bet they would be the first to admit they were damn lucky to have it turn out as well as it did.

Luck? Maybe....but the NHRA and CART teams were the top of the heap. The IRL is using ideas that don't work as well. ONE safety vehicle works on a short oval, but on a longer track? No. Not scrambling them faster? No.....

There is an institutional mindset with the IRL I think that has caused them to just block out the reality that it was done better 15 years ago because THEY Didn't invent it. It was a CART thing..and god knows we don't like what they were about do we?

[DBell]

The Zanardi incident was a perfect example of where the CART teams proved their worth. The would scramble before the pace car even picked up the leader...and the ONLY time a racer hit one of them was in Detroit by Mike Andretti and that was on the THIRD lap the truck was out there.... proving that race drivers can be brain dead 2 or 3 laps into a yellow...

Acually, it was Mario first, then Michael.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwEqj...ext=1&index=10

Even one of the all time great's can have a serious brain cramp.